This shows nothing really, other team around us have also had periods were their teams have gotten weaker (just look at united loosing Ronaldo, Tevez etc) these statics don't show that Spurs almost beat us to 4th, we could have even fallen behind Newcastle we were miles behind the top two this season, Hammered by United (Record Premier League defeat) 4-0 loss to AC Milan (Record European defeat: 0–4). Looking at just statistics would be foolish, the fact is without RVP scoring all the goals he did (and singly handedley winning us games) we would not be in the top 4
Agreed we were lucky. But we have beaten Barca several times. And you need to beat the best to lift the trophy.
I dont disagree with what your saying. But my point is merely that since 2006 - we have pretty much stayed at the same level (it's been up and down rather than the constant declined some are claiming.) We dont need a billionaires money all we need is to keep producing/signing youth but also KEEP HOLD of our more experienced players. The 'system' is very nearly working. (for example had we kept going the way we have been but also kept Fabregas and Nasri this could be our squad this Season... --------------------Sczezney------------------- Sagna---Mertesacker----Vermaelen--Santos ----------Arteta/Song----Wilshere------------ --------------------Fabregas------------------- ----Nasri--------VanPersie------Podolski------ ... that's without ever spending 'big' money)
Bear - your choice of stats never seem to tell the correct picture, I don't know why you try to use stats to back up your arguments, they never work. There is no way you cannot tell me that since 2004, every season, our squad has become weaker and weaker. Our league placement is no barometer to judge this as has been correctly mentioned, this is directly affected by other teams. Looking at our own team it is clear that: 2004 > 2005 > 2006 > 2007 > 2008 > 2009 > 2010 > 2011 !!
In 2006 we lost Vieira, Pires and Bergkamp, in 2007 we lost Sol Campbell, Thierry Henry and Ashley Cole, in 2008 we lost Lehmann and Ljungberg, in 2009 we lost Hleb, Flamini and Gilberto Silva. Look at the players they got replaced with !!
We were 19 points behind City and United last season, how is that nearly there? the reason we are in a similar position is because of other teams getting weaker and luck. Don't kid yourself this is the worst team under Wenger's reign and we were lucky to make it into the top four, you keep pointing to statistics then please explain how we had our worst defeat in Premiership history and our worst defeat in Europe yet were still on the same level . The only thing the current system is doing is developing young prospects into good players and then selling them off we are becoming a feeder club for other teams. How are we meant to keep hold of our experienced players when we show no signs of ambition?, and how are we meant to win anything if we don't seriously strengthen the squad? we need his (billionaires) money because Stan wont use any of his! and the fact that teams like City and Chelsea are spending huge meaning every players valuation also rises. Even mediocre players cost 10-12 million these days (look at the likes of Downing etc)
That's simply not true. Surely points total is a good barometer of how well a team has done throughout a season?? ... so how are they the 'wrong stats'? If it was'nt people would'nt claim the team that won the league was always the 'best team' in the country. Give me a 'better' way to measure a teams overall performance than the league table! (if you cant that just proves your wrong)
It is and it isn't working. We are there or thereabouts until Christmas then the annual collapse takes place. Its time we progress from nearly and became actual - this is a mirror image of where we are regarding personnel - too many potentially good players, not enough actually becoming good. The 2 are linked.
The league table is dependent on the strength of the league and strength of other teams within the league. The premiership is undoubtedly the best league in the world but I would say the last two seasons or so the league has gotten weaker. Our opposition like united have also become much weaker (just look at them in Champions league and Europa League) yet they are still far stronger than us. Ultimately this shows the team as a whole has gotten weaker, it as simple as that
Are you stupid?? What part of this dont you understand. It's a cycle. 1. Young players are brought in >>>> 2. We sell an experinced player (or two) >>> Team suffers as a result(goes backwards) >>>> 3. Young players get games and improve >>>team starts to improve >>>>4. Young players become experienced>>>>5. squad gets better. >>>>1. Young players are brought in >>>> 2. We sell an experienced player (or two)....
Really?? Well most of Europe seem to think the Premierleague is a strong as its ever been. If not stronger. Chelsea and City and United have the power to compete with anyone in Europe.
your an idiot you say the current system is very nearly working and contradict yourself by saying were in a cycle and that we lose our best players but the system is nearly working, you clearly don't see the major flaw of this system. City have overtaken us with United, we have Chelsea growing in Strength again and teams like spurs and Newcastle hot on our heels. You seem to be content with just staying a top four side but the fact of the matter is we are not even close to the top two. The current system isn't instantaneous and takes a few season to develop the youngsters, by then the experienced players are fed up with not winning anything and decide that they want to leave. This has happened with Helb, Flamani, Cesc, Nasri and may lose RVP next, but that ok according to you as we just need to develop players and try and hold on to our experienced players I asked you earlier how we are meant to hold onto these players if we cant guarantee winning trophies? I also asked you how we are pretty much on the same level now as we were a few seasons ago if we have suffered our heaviest defeat in both the league and in Europe all in one year? you have yet to answer either of these questions
I would say that Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool have clearly got weaker, either through losing good players or by instabilities and playing poorly. Man U have clearly lost top players over the last few seasons, and have aging/injury prone players constantly going out and on the books. Chelsea has suffered from their revolving door managers which has had had an adverse effect on their team. Liverpool have seriously declined since the loss of Benitez and lost some top players. They brought in a dinosaur that had no clue who ended up buying some overrated players with big price tags.
That's your opinion, your spouting nonsense now I haven't heard the majority of Europe as you put it saying anything of the sort. Really is that why City and United were knocked out of Europe so quickly and Chelsea were almost knocked out.
Ok it's this simple if we kept the EXACT same squad for next season. Do you think we would do better or worse? I personally think we would improve.(like my theory would suggest) Chamberlain, Gibbs, Coquelin, Miyaichi will all be a year more exprienced and will have developed physically as well. (and Wilshere will probably have a big impact when he returns) We both agree that we should'nt be selling our best players so I suppose that's something. Firstly we didnt have to sell them! players often get tempted to leave its up to the club to convince them to stay. I do not believe the board even tried to keep them. Secondly to answer your second question.. individual results prove nothing. We lost 6-1 to united in 2001. Overall league position is a much better indicator of performance.
If we keep the exact same squad then we will be stronger and get into the Champions League more comfortably. However, we still do not have the quality to challenge for the title. On the flip side, if we lose RVP then we will struggle to get into 4th place.
You are making no sense whatsover This is not a cycle, it is constant erosion as I have highlighted. the quality of players coming in are not as good as the quality of players going out.
This Chelsea side was not better than previous Chelsea sides that failed to win the Champions League. The difference was they had huge slices of luck. Their league position was a reflection on how good they were playing. I think the league overall was a true reflection on how good each team are. The only questionable position i would say is us getting 3rd.
6-1 is not as bad as having 8 goals put past you and having 4 put past you in Europe, these are our heaviest defeats in the league and in Europe all in the same season but they are just individual results and are just minor set back Wake-up if that does not show that we have become weaker then I don't know what will convince you.
