I have always hated the racism that has always seemed inbred at chelsea, and also their arrogance the last few years. But then I have always hated Norwich even more! But hate is many things to many people. For me the word hate is just a strong feeling, like love, and nothing very logical or worth analysing too much!. Hate is not a word I'd use to describe my opinion of a mass murderer for example.
Seriously, I've not had the time to read all the replies properly but i will make 1 little observation.. You guys & girls are far to intelligent to be posting on a footbal forum..shouldnt you be presenting the 10'o clock news or runing small countries or something...? I'm going to have to get my dictionary out just to read half of whats been posted on here....!!! Cheers, I'll get back to you when I can make sense of it all ! lol.
I think the original post is brilliant. Hate is clearly used very lazily on this MB and, I suspect, in many other areas of life. I hate rain, I hate eating fish etc. are all lazy uses of the word hate (in my opinion). The word dislike would be more appropriate. Do I dislike Chelsea? Yes, I suppose I do. But what is interesting to me, is that whilst I dislike Chelsea Football Club, if I am ever speaking to one of their fans, I never ever hold that against them or let it affect my judgement of them as a person. Clearly it is easier to dislike the idea of something, or an organisation, as it depersonalises that particular dislike. When is comes to disliking Chelsea fans specifically, I would need sounder reasoning than, "they are a Chelsea fan." Would I be happier if Chelsea were relegated and we won the Premiership? I think so. Would I be happy to see my Chelsea supporting friends in pain? No, not really. I quote the above post as I think it has much merit to it. I personally believe that we all buy into 'meta-narratives', wittingly or not. The grand story of capitalism is that we are happy when we accumulate 'stuff' and the great fear is not having enough. The hope of some is that there is 'nothing' and that oneself is ones own greatest authority; the fear is that one might have to become subservient to a higher power and/or moral authority. The goal of the religious might be heaven, while the fear is of hell, purgatory, punishment etc. The fiction we read has both good and bad, from Tolkein to Clancy, and I've never seen a movie with only good guys in it. Many people buy into football in a similar way, and what good is a story without a bad-guy? The fact that my dislike works on a non-personal level only goes some way to prove (to me at least) that the dislike for Chelsea is based on that very same story-telling level. Then again, maybe they are just a local rival
Hate is a strong word, actively dislike is more accurate I guess. My dislike seems to have grown however with people like Terry and Cole at that club, to me they epitomise everything that's wrong with football. Chelsea were the pantomime villains down the road, Harris, Droy and then Speedie and Dixon etc. Now it's all a lot more cynical, or is that just a romantic notion?
To hate Chelsea, what does it mean. Very thought provoking thread Brixton. At first, quite obvious, but on closer examination not so. Let us first examine the definition of hate. Verb : Feel intense or passionate dislike for someone, or as in this case, something. Noun : Intense or passionate dislike: '' Feelings of hate. '' Synonyms : Verb.. Detest, abhor, loathe, abominate, execrate and dislike. Noun : Hatred, odium, abhorrence, detestation and loathing. So what this should make us realise, is that yes. Hate, hatred and hating are indeed strong words. But it is also the right one. We have been indoctrinated to apologise for using it, and use the lesser offensive and PC version that is dislike. Same difference. ( See above. ) For the last ten to fifteen years ( in my experience ) we have been told that hate is a strong word, and not to use it. ( I've even said the same to my kids. ) But it is the correct word and we should not feel the need to not use it. Dislike is the very same as hatred. So if we move on from that argument, we shall try to apply it to football. ( Although on personal closer examination, it can be applied to any part of life that you wish. ) It is within the human psyche that we all hate. Hence all of the wars and conflicts that have ever happened. Once you realise and except this, the understanding of it makes it easier. It all comes down from the degree of hate or extreme dislike, ( if you prefer. ) Case in point, this weekend I sat and watched four football matches. Blackpool v West Ham, Hibs v Hearts, Bayern v Chelsea and Juventus v Lazio. Sub-conciously I chose a team that I preferred to win. I didn't realise at the time until I read this thread and thought about it. ( Every team I sub-conciously rooted for lost btw. ) I now realise that I can't watch any contest, sporting or other-wise without favouring someone. Do you find yourself doing this? No matter how tenuous the link? It's like you have to have a protaganist and an antagonist ( Good guy? bad guy ) to make it interesting. QueensParkRangers above me touched on this. Try reading a book or watching a film where there is no conflict... There isn't one. No one would read or watch them. Have you ever worked somewhere where you disliked someone? Of course you have, we all have, it's human nature that yo'll never get along with everyone. Even on here!!! Hatred and dislike ( same thing ) exists everywhere. The North hate the South. The Poor hate the Rich. The Left hate the Right. Religions hate other Religions. Religions within religions hate part of that religion. Mac users hate PC users. People who are the same, hate eachother. and so it goes on to the most petty example you care to think of...the list is infinite......... QPR players hate other QPR players, or QPR fans hate other QPR fans. Use dislike if you like. It means the same. When you come to think about it, we as fans even dislike some of our own players.. Check out the comments on the One Size thread for instance. So what this all boils down to is this....We all hate someone or something, it's in our human make-up. Our particular brand of choice happens to be Chelsea. There could be a million and one reasons for this. Going back to the human psyche thing which is still prominent from our primeval forefathers. It is probably down to the closest tribe that is strongest to you. That is why we don't feel so strongly about Fulham.
Nines, I think Belfast's post said all that is needed about 'hate' whatever the dictionary definition. As far as I am concerned it does not apply to Chelsea, any other football club or fortunately anything else in my life. I feel great anger about some things, usually to do with injustice and stupidity in people who should know better, but am very aware that 'hate' is a blanket emotion that diminishes intelligence, choice and personal responsibility. We use the word loosely in everyday life, but when we actually think about it as this excellent thread has prompted us to do, surely we can only say 'I hate Chelsea' in the same sense as 'I hate couscous'. I was shouting for Hibs this weekend too. Go up there with mates to drink heavily and catch a game once a year. The footy is dire, but I feel for the Hibbie half of Edinburgh this week.
as long as **** does not join the long list of ancient words like **** and **** that are dismembered and put in Linguistic Room 101 . i would hate it if that happened (having a Tourettes moment-off to walk the dog) how long before the season starts, i cant take much more of this?
Clearly you've never tried a nice bit of monkfish with chilli jam, creme fraiche and a rocket salad!! Love Fish, Love the Rangers!!
Nope I stand very firm on this. I hate the brand Chelsea.... I love football. I also think that it is fine to use the word Hate and never dilute it .... its very important in the balance of life as you cannot have one with out the other. I get sick that people are trying to redefine something that is simple. Black White ON OFF Love Hate True False. Also in my life its a simple fact ... The people I know/have known who are Chelsea fans are real sulky types with big chips on their shoulders. My youngster son was also subjected to Chelsea by his step father ... it was thrust upon him ... lucky later in life having had a good French upbringing he was cured and unhindered and without my influence he is now a true Ranger .. All my boys understand this now that once a thing goes mainstream to a point of saturation then in a way your freedom is breached. I hate Chelsea and all it has done to the good people. Of course i know without Chelsea it could be anything/something else but it isn't and I am happy to state I love to hate Chelsea
Unfortunately Brix, it is all coming down to semantics. But this is what hate looks like (fictionalised) and don't think even the Hoppster does it too often? You can simplify the language yet further Hoppy, to remove any confusion, duality of meaning and need to interpret - George Orwell did it with Newspeak in 1984. And before you leap back at me I know what you're getting at and I'm just showing off. Substitute Murdoch for Chelsea in your post and I may be on the verge of hating.... [video=youtube;0vvvPZd6_D8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvvPZd6_D8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video] In the one time I've seen Glagow Rangers fans up close (at Hibs a couple of years ago) they were scarily similar.
Nice to talk semantics from time to time. Have to compliment all respondents for the quality of their contributions. Great reading. Thank you. Let's have a look at the scale of love and hate then. (I've taken a five point scale but we can imagine the shades of gray between any two points.) Love, like, indifferent, dislike, hate. Level of intensity or lack of it determines the order. The scale also suggests activity and passivity. The closer we get to the extremes of love and hate, the more inclined we are to want to do something about it. Fully understand the protagonist / antagonist thing but it just isn't like that for me. Fundamentally speaking, the fact that at core I love Rangers and see them as my protagonist, isn't counter-balanced by opposing feelings about the other club/team. I don't regard them as my antagonist - just another obstacle along the pathway to my dreams in this regard. The fact that some obstacles are more interesting than others simply adds spice to a contest but not weight to my feelings. My love for Rangers makes me very active. I'm either buying tickets and making journeys or flapping about trying to find a stream that works. (Norway gets on aeroplanes!) My feelings about other clubs, including Chelsea, doesn't raise my responses beyond the passive. I can't remember the last time I attended a game solely because I dislike one of the teams. So looking at where I'd place other teams on the love-hate scale sits somewhere between like and dislike. Of course we don't say we dislike Chelsea. Sounds too clinical. We'd say I'm not keen on Chelsea or most likely, I don't like Chelsea if our feelings are fairly passive. It's the inference of activity in the word 'hate' that prevents me from hating football clubs. I think Nines would agree that this is precisely why we teach our children not to hate - because we don't want to see them getting further involved in a negative and doing something about it.
Brix I think you're missing a category between dislike & hate....disdain. I look down on Chelsea in a contemptuous manner, its stonger than dislike (I dislike beetroot for instance) but its not a hatred. Its more a dismissive stance that they are below contempt, vacous and whining. I feel the same about the French (although they do great cheese)
I LIKE beetroot but don't LOVE it. Therefore I only eat it when it turns up. I don't go looking for it!
I started going to see QPR while still at junior school in the late 70's and apart from a few plastics for Man Utd and Liverpool it was either us or Chelsea. Interesting to note that it was mostly the poorer kids that liked Chelsea and when I went to the local comprehensive it was certainly the less well off that you'd find supported them. Over the years I have met many Chelsea fans, even managed to be friends with some, but on the whole I have only ever met knuckle dragging racists who support them. They hark back to the good old days of away trips to far flung towns across the country where they delighted in kicking the sh*t out of any other "firm" they could find. Chelsea = racism, this was clearly defined during the 80s with the NF openly recruiting outside Stamford Bridge. Other than the odd bit of banter I never had anything to do with Chelsea supporters who had nothing to brag about during the 80's and into the 90's as QPR were the better team. It all changed with Hoddle, Gullitt, Vialli, Zola etc when they started picking up silverware on a regular basis. Despite their success there was still a lot to dislike about them. One of the most odious chairmen ever to own a club in Ken Bates, dirty little captain Denis Wise etc. and then came the Russian. Chelsea have won more trophies since he bought the club than in their previous history, 8 cups before he took over and 10 since. All of a sudden the money was spent, more success followed, along comes Mourhino winning two titles and the old guard support comes out of the woodwork joined by a hoarde of Adidas wearing numpties from the South of London. Their fans still look for aggro wherever they go, all trying to be the next version of the Headhunters, throwing celery about, Nazi salutes and still racist even though their best players over the last decade have been black. And then there is John Terry. Violent, cheating racist that he is. It must be such a wonderful feeling to go to the Champion's League final and win. There will be no Chelsea fans who give a flying feck what anyone else thinks, their club are the best in Europe (for one day!). Not as good as Man Utd, Man City, Gooners, Spuds or the Toon in the league, didn't "deserve" to beat Barcalona or Bayern perhaps but on the European cup it won't say 2012 - Chelsea (jammy bastards) it will just say Chelsea and that can't be taken away from them. For me I'd rather support QPR until the day I drop down dead with no titles, no cups & trophies, rather than be a Chelsea fan. Some people are going to watch the Champions League final and think "hey, they are winners, I will support them from now on" and so the snowball will get ever bigger. I can't envy Chelsea because they stand for so much that offends me.
