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Sir Alex Has To Take A Great Deal Of Credit

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by David Schofield, May 13, 2012.

  1. TuckersLaw

    TuckersLaw Member

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    Probably because they have been both seismically successful and popular, therefore pay their players accordingly?

    They've have of course supplemented their squad each year with some phenomenally talented players as you have listed, but guess which 3 have been riding high in the European / Ballon D'Or awards for the last 3 seasons and widely accepted as the heart of the team?

    I'll give you a clue..... M***i / X**i / I*****a.

    Someone wake me when City produce 3 players like that <ok>
     
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  2. SAMOC

    SAMOC New Member

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    city cant even produce a player like neville nevermind the barca lot
     
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  3. David Schofield

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    They don't pay these Fantasy Football Wages and Fees out of the procedes of their 'Seismic Success'

    They have gone into debt to the tune of £Half-A-Billion to buy and sustain that success.

    Always, about the money.
     
    #43
  4. TuckersLaw

    TuckersLaw Member

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    Spending over the long term is indicative of steady earnings gained and built on from steady success. Spending vast amounts in a few short seasons is indicative of a seeming overspend, not aligned to the clubs earnings.

    I'm not sure it is more noble, but it is surely a safer model for long term success;

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...the-current-health-of-the-Premier-League.html
     
    #44
  5. TuckersLaw

    TuckersLaw Member

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    It can't be, because their 3 most decorated and honoured players are all from their long established youth academy. Cost £0m.

    As are Giggs and Scholes at United. The most decorated players in the PL. Cost £0m.

    All free players <ok>
     
    #45
  6. SAMOC

    SAMOC New Member

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    Fergie wasn't free though
     
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  7. David Schofield

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    As extraordinarily good as those three are, Barcelona wouldn't have dominated European Football over the past few years if they hadn't spent more money than they had.


    Unless you think they wanted to accumulate such enormous debt for a laugh.

    It is, and always will be, about the money.
     
    #47
  8. TuckersLaw

    TuckersLaw Member

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    Not only have I shown you that some of the most decorated players in Europe have come through youth academy's but you should also take note that Stoke City have a net spend higher than Man United in the past 5 years <ok>

    And we have won a few more trophies than them. Money is a big factor but not the only one.

    The best midfield the PL has seen, in my humble opinion - Beckham / Scholes / Keane / Giggs. Why not tot up the total cost of those 4....
     
    #48
  9. Swarbs

    Swarbs Well-Known Member
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    And yet Real Madrid have spent more money, and accumulated more debt, than Barcelona over the same period. And yet they have spent the vast majority of that time in Barca's shadow.

    Guess it ain't all about the money after all then...
     
    #49
  10. David Schofield

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    You seem to have fallen into the trap of the media obsession with Transfer Fees.

    Net Transfer fees are virtually irrelevant compared to the expenditure in Wages.

    Stoke may well have spent an additional £10M a year on TF's, but United will have spent the best part of £70m more on wages.

    As for Real Madrid being in Barca's shadow, that is true, only, that situation has traditionally been in reverse, what changed?

    &#8364;Kerching!

    Barca outspent them.
     
    #50

  11. Swarbs

    Swarbs Well-Known Member
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    <laugh>

    Did they bollox outspend them. Barca have been ahead of Real since about 2008. Since then Real have spent far more than Barca on Ronaldo, Kaka, Benzema, Di Maria, Alonso, Diarra, Ozil, Coentrao etc etc. In fact, ironically enough, the only time Barca outspent Real in that period was on Fabregas and Alexis last summer. Only to promptly end up firmly in Real's shadow this season. Good prediction <ok>
     
    #51
  12. David Schofield

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    There you go again Tabloid-Fodder.

    Transfer Fees are perhaps 10% of a Club's Budget.

    Just kept ignoring the other 90%, and it will go away.
     
    #52
  13. Swarbs

    Swarbs Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, right. When Real spent £135 million on Ronaldo and Kaka that was 10% of their annual budget <laugh>

    The wage differential between Barca and Real for the past five years has been negligible. The quality difference has been massive.

    And on the wage basis, you think the PL table should exactly mirror the wage table? In other words you think the PL table for this season was:

    1. City
    2. Chelsea
    3. Utd
    4. Liverpool
    5. Arsenal
    6. Spurs
    7. Everton

    The wage table accurately predicted the finishing positions of two of the top seven teams this season. Complete failure for the other five <ok>
     
    #53
  14. Jerel Ifil

    Jerel Ifil Well-Known Member

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    It's not £7.5m in the current markets though, is it? That's over many years, like you've said, including the 90s where you and Blackburn were by far the biggest spenders, the Chelseas and Man Citys of the day. Fast forward to today, and you're spending as much as any of them. Like I said, Man U have probably been the single most destructive force in the English transfer market.
     
    #54
  15. David Schofield

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    That's right, Real Madrid had a huge influx of investment?

    Why?

    And what happened?

    As for the League Table of Wages?

    Yes it pretty much determines the League Table of points.
     
    #55
  16. TheLawMan

    TheLawMan Member

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    Be sure to explain that on the Leeds and Toon boards :) Remind them about all that money spent and congratulate them on the trophies won whilst they were doing it.

    Huge amounts of money are no substitute for buying the right players and managing them successfully.
     
    #56
  17. David Schofield

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    And Leeds?

    You want to use Leeds United?

    They spent crazy money, and reached the Semi-Final of the Champions League, then they ran out and reached the Semi-Final of the English 3rd Division's Play Offs!

    It is always about the money.

    If you wish to argue that it is possible to dominate Eurpoean or English Club Football without spending big, you are going to have to give me an example.

    I'll take Ajax, but don't expect another from you
     
    #57
  18. TheLawMan

    TheLawMan Member

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    I am using Leeds as a fine example to rebut your argument as I see it.

    You say it is all about the money.

    It isn't.

    If it were just all about money, Leeds and Toon both spent millions, won nothing, and ended up poorer and relegated.

    However, by your reckoning, their money should have bought them success... just as your reasoning is that money will buy Man City success.

    It won't.

    Any idiot chairman or owner can spend money and maybe win a couple of trophies. Look at Blackburn. Look at Man City.

    Building a team that dominates your league or Europe for a consistent period of time requires more than just money.

    It require vision, a youth policy, strong management and the ability to spend what money is on the table well.

    That is the latter point I am making which you seem to be overlooking.

    Man City have the money, no argument.
    On its own, that money is not enough. You need the rest of the things I have listed above.
    That is where we differ.
     
    #58
  19. David Schofield

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    We dont differ.

    I agree with you on every point. To dominate you need all of those things.

    It is just the priority that you are wilfully overlooking;

    Because Money, occupys the top spot in the list of needs and wants, and without it, the rest won't get you anywhere
     
    #59
  20. TheLawMan

    TheLawMan Member

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    There we have to disagree again.

    If you have a stable club with a good core of existing players, excellent youth facilities, excellent management and good financial management, you will be in a better position than a club that has millions of pounds and none of the above.

    Leeds, Toon and Real Madrid in the early 2000's are evidence of this.

    They are my case against your assertion that money is all. It isn't. It is a contributing factor, that's all, not the primary consideration.

    This is something that City fans seem unable to comprehend.

    Perhaps they should go talk to their counterparts at Leeds, Toon and Real about having lots of money, spending it on the assumption it will buy you success, and the actual end result.
     
    #60

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