Throughout testing, McLaren were running a very radical exhaust system, which we now know they have ditched for a "simpler solution". They claim it was ditched due to "performance and reliability" reason. I think this is a load of bollocks, and that the exhaust was actually illegal. Their radical solution is that the "U" bend leads into an exhaust box (octopus box) which then splits into several exits blowing exhaust gasses all over the rear of the car. The big problem with this is that the rules state that any ducting that is used to "pipe" hot exhaust gas through the car is classified as exhaust - making the octopus box part of the exhaust. The rules also state that only two exhaust exits are allowed - making the McLaren exhaust illegal. To make matters worse, they constructed this octopus box from a material called Pyrosic (a Glass Ceramic Composite). Ferrari wanted to make their exhaust from Pyrosic and Charlie Whiting said that this was not allowed and that they could only make their exhaust from somethig on the "permitted materials list". As I said before the octopus box is part of the exhaust, meaning McLaren have used an illegal material. As for their "simpler solution", I seriously doubt that it be that effective. We can only speculate at what it might be, but it's probably just blowing the exhaust through the starter hole - which is weak solution when compared to the likes of Renault, Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes. McLaren have had a tough winter. I don't know how Whitmarsh can remain optimistic - even his drivers have spoke of the lack of pace, and if that happens pre season, something is clearly wrong.
You have a lot of points there which do explain why they have c hanged it, but that may not have even been the reason, and the real reason was that it was actually slowing them down, so I don't suppose you've actually spoke to a Mclaren designer about it. Yeah they have had a tough winter, but with this allegation just under a week before the season starts, looks like, and no offence intended, mind games. If they were illegal, then they've have been sorted out and are no legal, so I don;t see what the fuss is about. Red Bull, Renault and Ferrari have used things that were close to breaking or were breaking the rules in the past, so I don't see why your complaining. The exhaust must be completely legal now, even if the FIA picked up on it. And just for a bit of trivia, the rule about using the exhaust gas on the rear wings was because of safety. In the year that Prost (team) brought the innovative but utterly useless 'tower wings' aka 1998, claims were made that the exhaust fumes were heating up the 'stalks' in testing and they were falling of, and we know from Ralph Firman's accident at Hungary, that it produces catastrophic results.
If I recall correctly, and I cannot remember where I read this, probably scarbs on Twitter, but it was mentioned that McLaren invited Charlie whiting to look at the octopus, and he thought it was legal, however, a rival team, (Williams?) Sought clarification, which ended up in the exerpt from the op regarding two exits. Also, as it is a part of the exhaust, they are not allowed to make it from exotic materials. From general chit chat, I get the impression that they were having issues getting the new system to match their simulations, so maybe a simpler floor may lead to a better performance. Necessity is the mother of invention and all that!!
Wow that must have taken a lot of effort to copy Lorca, good effort mate! The first exhaust system was illegal, that's not a secret. But they had 4 different designs so there were 3 others which they couldn't get to work. I'm glad you think it's bollocks, you may well be right about performance. But I'm sure you'll be the first to admit your technical analysis is pretty poor.
Eh? Is this an evaluation of some interesting points or an opportunity to attack each other? - There seems to be a lot of fire in this placeââ¬Â¦ Why not stick to the points raised? Regardless of their origin, I certainly think they have some validity in a forum.
With the race now so close its fair to play the wait and see game. I think McLaren will be improved on Sunday, probably not enough for a win, but enough for a possible podium. With regards to the first design being illegal, designs always push the limits of the law so they are bound to fall the wrong side of the line from time to time. To summarise: Roll on Friday-Sunday!
bubbles, I believe it was Sam Michael who complained about it McWilliams, I didn't "copy" it, but I did see similar information about the illegal exhaust from other sites. And this was far from a "technical analysis" - I explained how the concept works in one sentence. All I was doing was briefly explaining how McLaren's exhaust is illegal. You should start some threads of your own rather then moaning about mine all the time. BrightLampShade, Do you think McLaren can outdevelop everyone in such little time? and by such a big gap to Red Bull and Ferrari? I'm not so sure. Hamilton's comments about "our fastest time is a low 1.22" proves that they are in serious trouble when a Sauber can do 1.21.7 - I haven't included any McLaren in my top 10 predictions. Mercedes recovered a big performance deficit, but that upgrade was planned and McLaren have much bigger issues to sort on their car. The cancellation of Bahrain helped them in some way, but that still isn't enough time to unlock the full potential from the car just yet.
We've seen in the past how one 'simple' part can make a car massively faster, but I doubt we'll see McLaren massively faster, just a bit faster. They are clearly behind RB and Ferrari, and possibly still behind a few others, but they have two very good drivers with different styles that should allow them to get a relatively good result. If the car can last the distance they should be able to get in and around 5th place until they develop the car to be a front runner.
I don't think you can entirely rule out a world champion to get a decent finish in an underperforming car, and they have two of them! People are still talking about Schumacher having a chance, I don't see why they don't.
I think it is a fair point to prefer to McLaren's drivers. Over a full race difference, they have the ability to drag the car around by its bootstraps, so long as it keeps running. For that reason I would expect the McLarens to finish in around 5th or 6th. - If they finish!
It all depends on how much time they can pull back. Ferrari did a pretty good job mid season last year and Mercedes did this year in testing. Changes for cars are always planned, and if their exhaust was as radical as it seems then they probably had a more conventional back up in case their primary design is found illegal. Personally I think we should be looking at the drivers as well as the cars. I'd back Alonso and Hamilton over either Red Bull driver in cars only slightly behind the RB on pace. Also given the tyre situation this year I think Button may need to be includd as an option too.RB have a great car which masked average drivers last season. We saw what the McLaren drivers were able to do with a car that was second/third fastest i the first half of last season, so right now I wouldn't rule anything out. On a positive note, at least the legality of the exhaust was rectified before the begining of the first race. Wonder how Sam Michael managed to ge hold of the exhaust designs though? ;-)
Jose Lorca- I really don't see the relevance of 1.22 or who might do better re- the result of the race. ALL the teams will improve on their times for qualifying. The result has much more to do with the suspension balance and use of the tyres remaining after qualy. PLUS 3 or 4 tyre changes and the strategy of who pits and when.
dont get why they would test with a fundamental part thats illegal rather than getting data from a legal version of that part. Mclaren are already behind and this is another step backwards
I think they were pushing their luck, testing it in case it was declared legal. Both Ferrari and McLaren asked to use Pyrosic in their exhaust systems. The alledged use of the octopus box was probably an interpretation style development, much like the Brawn DD which many teams questioned the legality of in 2009. In McLarens case the FIA must have decided that their interpretation was incorrect and ordered its removal. Best guess is that McLaren greyed the line at which the exhaust and floor were defined, ie the exhaust had one exit, that exited into the octopus box which is a part of the floor. Just a guess.
just found this from our friend Scarbs http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/trends-2011-exhausts-and-diffusers/#comments It's only a theory from him, but it's a good one regarding the McLaren exhaust. I have a feeling the main stumbling block was the refusal of pyrosic in the floor construction.
Lorca. The wording on your article suggested you had come to the conclusion that the exhaust was illegal. Everyone knows one of them was bit thanks for confirming the 'I think' part of your article was in fact 'I've read elsewhere'. And I apologise it did sound like I was saying the technical analysis in this article is poor. I actually was commenting on your skills in general. Just wondering why you keep trying. Cosicave, are you familiar with the word 'hypocrite'?
You seem to be angry all the time recently, its almost F1 time, the weathers improving, all things are good. In the words of the youth: Chillax
"I'm hearing mutterings in the Melbourne pitlane that McLarens exhaust has caught the attention of the FIA scrutineers" http://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/50512007409053696
Is there any reliable source to back up this article? People seem to trawl the internet and copy any joe blow's post on any obscure blog and accept it as fact depending on how convenient it is to their point of view.
To be fair to the ScarbsF1 blog which gets brought up often, he did use to write technical pieces for F1 mags, and does go to the tests, although other sources admittedly can be less reliable!
