Do you think clubs that in the past that have gone into admin and now boast to have millions should now be forced to pay back the moneys owed to the people and busnesses they have ripped off? Maybe if its too late to force them now something should be put in place in the future as it would be the decent and honourable thing to do dont you think. Admin seems to be the easy way out and the only loosers are the people and firms they have turned over . I could name quite a few clubs that have done this even the so called giants of the Scottish sunday league . Pay it back and show some pride i say ............. JH
Well 54DJ i just wondered if the people and firms who are owed thousands and in some cases have lost everything really need to know how the people who but them in that state are doing at the moment , Fair question i think and if it ruffels a few feathers thats not my fault its whats been done in the past and it would be the decent and honourable thing to do is to pay back money that is owed dont you think?
football clubs are companies, companies go into administration and dont have to pay back creditors, or at least only a fraction of what they're owed, thats the way it is unfortunately. however there could be some sort of gentlemans agreement put in place, like how will financial fair play work as surely UEFA have no right to tell clubs how to operate and therefore exclude them from competitions? you say the only losers are the people who are owed money, that can be true as clubs can act disgracefully, and ridicule the rules by tactically going into administration early if they're safe from relegation even with the 10 point loss, so that they can avoid paying debt and they come out the other side in better financial health. it would be nice to see clubs be forced to pay back every penny but people like ken bates, sacha gaydamak etc dont do morals
Interesting debate for once John. Maybe you should include the question 'Should clubs be allowed to cook the books' too ie should clubs be allowed to convert £millions of debt into say shares just so they 'appear' to be debt free and in a much healthier financial position than they really are.
Did not realize that was cooking the books? Means every single Fortune 500 company is cooking the books! As for clubs that can go into admin to get out of trouble. The debt should be held accountable for 10 years after the day of admin. At any time a company owed money can ask for the club to be audited and debts repaid if possible. Also, whoever is deemed to be responsible for the state of the club when it goes into admin is banned from being involved with any football team at any level for 25 years.
Stid Shares are not debt, they are equity and in the event of a business going bust the shareholders are the last to get paid. Therefore, by converting debt (loans) into shares the shareholders are taking a much bigger risk and rank after all creditors, secured or unsecured. That is not cooking the books. It is a common practice in all forms of business not just football clubs. It shows a commitment by the shareholders and is effectively putting their money up with no obvious date or time for repayment unless they are able to onsell their shares. For example look at Arsenal where the longstanding family shareholders have sold their shares to Kronke and Usimov. The action also makes the balance sheet look healthier as shares are an investment in the organisation and the greater investment by the owners/shareholders gives more confidence to those who want to do business with the organisation.
Just goes to prove that even such an obvious fishing trip will always catch a dullard. BFB has more than adequately explained the distinction between redeemable loans and share capital, and also the reasons why responsible directors agree to their capitalisation, though I doubt he'll be acknowledged for putting you right. No more financial lessons on this thread please Breezey - I nearly did myself an injury laughing so much yesterday.
Fair question i think and soon as i mentioned administration and owing money the jacks go ape with allegations about other clubs finances. The main reference was to the Scottish club in trouble at the moment ..... The idea of shares instead of robbing people seems a fair deal as the moneys are not lost for good and eventualy they get paid back ,maybe it takes a little time but they still get paid back Agree with siamblue that there must be at least a 15 yr period of accountability by these clubs if they come into finances in that time they have to pay the owed money back . Respect and honour ,respect and honour . JH .
I agree JH but if you think that football boards are full of fair play and compation, I think you need to think again.
Did i say i thought they were honest and full of fair play?, Just raised the question about the rules that should be set in place now if a team comes into money after admin. Must be soul destroying for firms that went bust being owed x amount and now seeing millions being spent .
It's businesses, losers and eventually. If this was aimed at us, are we spending millions? How do you know our club hasn't repaid these businesses? With PL football, the business our team now provides Swansea is a repayment in itself.
Geezzzzzzzzzzz the jacks are all over the Cardiff board like a nasty rash!!!,whats up lads are you still obsessed with Cardiff City? ***ash in answer to your question about if this was aimed at your club let me ask you a few questions to see. 1/ has your club ever been in admin ? 2/if so how many times 3/ have they at the moment any capital to spend 4/ if so do they have any intension to pay back the hundreds of thousands if not millions owed to people and companys ,some companys now folded due to dept oweing . Now that is a general question to all clubs that have been thro admin ,if you are inclueded feel free to reply................
JH, I see the circus is coming to town and sent the clowns in to warm us up. No mention of Swansea in the thread and not on the Swansea board! With regard to the thread, unfortunately the biggest creditors will get paid first and then it filters down to the local business men if there are funds available. No business will pay off an old debt. That's why some clubs opt to go into admin on more than one occasion.
More often than not clubs that come out of administration have no obligation, ethically or business wise, to pay these debts.
