1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Man U's prozone stats leaked to the media

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by RicardoHCAFC, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10,311
    Likes Received:
    454
  2. PLT

    PLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    25,066
    Likes Received:
    13,372
    I dunno why people talk only about United getting key decisions, it happens to plenty of other clubs too. It isn't even limited to 'big' clubs. Some teams just have a way with refs like Burnley and Stoke, I think it's something to do with their home grounds, though I've no idea what.
     
    #2
  3. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10,311
    Likes Received:
    454
    If we're taking it seriously, I'd say the reason Man U tend to get more pens than other sides is because they're fouled more.

    They're one of, if not the most attacking teams in the country. If you're attacking more and getting into the box more, even if you're fouled the same 5% of the time that other teams are then you're going to be fouled on more occassions and get more penalties.

    Likewise if you've got faster players it makes timing challenges more difficult so you're going to get fouled a greater % of the time. Man U tend to have fast players, Valencia, Young, Ronaldo, Giggs when he was younger, Kanchelskis, Sharpe.
     
    #3
  4. PLT

    PLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    25,066
    Likes Received:
    13,372
    Agreed. That doesn't explain the jamminess of some crap sides though.
     
    #4
  5. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10,311
    Likes Received:
    454
    It's cheaper to buy a referee than to buy the players?
     
    #5
  6. BigotAlertAnalRimMan

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    14
    this is exactly how i feel. I think every team gets the same amount. I think it's pathetic people going on about Webb and Man utd. Any neutral who watched the chelsea game should have seen that they should have had the first penalty in first half. And a red card for Cahill. Man u's second penalty was soft but in my opinion it's 50/50. They do get fouled more and they are in the box more than other teams, what do you expect?
    Other teams get lucky decisions but because they're not competing at the top, those decisions matter less. If you add up the fan bases of liverpool, man city, chelsea, arsenal and spurs you get a lot of people. These people can create a large consensus of negative opinion towards man u based on bias.
     
    #6
  7. Party Hull!

    Party Hull! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Am I being thick here? What's any of that got to do with prozone?

    Surely there's no secrecy surrounding refs giving penalties, it would be clear for anyone who keeps stats. You just...count them.

    Is there a link I've missed to prozone?
     
    #7
  8. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10,311
    Likes Received:
    454
    All prozone does is count things, anyone with access to the videofootage of the games and a spare few days could go through the various camera angles putting the information into a computer to create the stats. Most teams keep records of their players, I was playing on the popular joke that the referees often seem to be on their side to suggest that Man U were prozoning the referees and ranking them in the same way.
     
    #8
  9. Nick HCAFC

    Nick HCAFC Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,299
    Likes Received:
    1
    Brownie loved prozone didnt he, thats why he kept picking Marney because Marney is a prozone world champion :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
    #9
  10. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10,311
    Likes Received:
    454
    It's a dagerous game, I bet McLean is 10 times the player Koren is if you're using prozone. You'd compare him with someone like Geovanni, but even he used to track back a lot. I even remember against Man City he tracked Bellamy all the way back to our goalline and put a tackle in.
     
    #10

  11. Party Hull!

    Party Hull! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Oooooh, I failed completely to understand.

    So I was being thick. I'll give my head a bang.
     
    #11
  12. PLT

    PLT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    25,066
    Likes Received:
    13,372
    Prozone isn't just about running, it's just as much about pass completion, shooting accuracy, tackles won and every other concievable statistic. If Marney had such great prozone scores it's probably because he was better than we thought.
     
    #12
  13. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    107,527
    Likes Received:
    64,703
    There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    Brownie often used Prozone to try and justify his ****e team selections, it didn't work then, it won't work now.

    The fact is, that measuring how far someone runs, or how many passes they complete, tells you **** all about how good they are.

    As has been pointed out already, I bet that Koren's stats would be ****e, while McShane's would be great. If you run around a lot and complete loads of 3ft passes, then your stats will be great, if you amble around all game, but score a last minute winner, then your stats will still be ****e, but you'll still win us the game.
     
    #13
  14. petersaxton

    petersaxton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    23,690
    Likes Received:
    13,453
    I think that ProZone would be great for reviewing games and players contributions to games and producing DVDs for players. If I was a manager I would review games for different parts of the pitch and make notes on a players effectiveness and what he did right and what he did wrong. I'd mark him up for a dangerous cross that was just missed by a striker and I'd ignore the irrelevant "ProZone passes" between team mates.
     
    #14
  15. RicardoHCAFC

    RicardoHCAFC Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    10,311
    Likes Received:
    454
    I agree, as with most measures of performance it will be useful when used properly. It just worries me when someone justifies decisions using just one set of measures.
     
    #15
  16. The FRENCH TICKLER

    The FRENCH TICKLER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22,910
    Likes Received:
    613
    #16
  17. andy payton's mullet

    andy payton's mullet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,750
    Likes Received:
    325
    Wasn't Prozone Mr Incredible's friend?
     
    #17
  18. The FRENCH TICKLER

    The FRENCH TICKLER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    22,910
    Likes Received:
    613

Share This Page