Fair comments Shergar although I think you are being a bit harsh on Zenyatta. Very unlucky not to beat their top colt in the BC so I wouldn't call that scared. Not going to argue about that race though.
Not sure how I'm being harsh to Zenyatta Ron, she ran 20 times and took on colts twice, and she only won one of those. After she won the BC classic she was running in mediocre races, against fillies far inferior to herself, avoiding any serios competition, just so they could be at 19-0, when they got to her final race to go 20-0. That's why I was glad to see her lose, as her 19-0 was a joke, and it would have been an embarrassment if she took the consecutive wins record, as she only realy ran in 2 top races. Unlike Black Caviar who takes on the very best colts every time she runs
Could the same not be said about Black Caviar? How many years have the owners and trainers known she was too good for anything in Australia? She's 6 years old this year, Surely she could have took her chance in Europe sooner or are the owners/trainer more concerned about her winning streak just like Zenyatta's owners were. I think what you've just said about Zenyatta could be said about Black Caviar. The only real good horse shes beat in Australia is Haylist and how many times as she embarrased him?
Istabraq.....So what if Black Caviar hasn't left Australia yet, did Zenyatta leave America? *In fact she rarely left her own state. Black Caviar runs in the toughest G1s against the best males each time she runs. Zenyatta was not running in the toughest races against males, she was sticking to her own sex, and winning egg and spoon races to get her tally up to 19-0, so they could go for the record 20-0 in the Classic.* If they were realy confident in her ability, those races to get her record up to 19-0 would have been in the best races around, by that I mean G1s against colts. The races were there for her to run in but they didn't have the balls to risk her streak before the classic. * Black Caviar on the other hand doesn't need to avoid the males, as she is a 1/14 shot even against the very best males, and she makes them look like class 4 handicappers *everytime.* The best turf sprinters in the world are from Australia, all you have to do is check out the Aussies strike rate in G1 sprints at Royal Ascot to realise that, so she realy wouldn't be proving anything more to the ratings experts by winning at Ascot, as she has faced and beaten better horses in Australia.* The only thing she would be doing by winning at Ascot, is enhancing her global reputation*
While Hay List is a wonderful horse, he's not the only animal with a decent past record that Black Caviar has beaten. I've done a litte bit of a scout around and come up with a little info on those who have finished behind the mare. I've included a list of winners who have won at Group One, who couldn't go with her. Wanted. Here de Angels. Hot Danish. Star Witness. Hay List. Crystal Lily. Doubtful Jack. Buffering. Eagle Falls. Beaded. Response. Sniper's Bullet. Black Piranha. Albert The Fat. Melito. Shoot Out. All Silent. Triple Honour. Shellscrape. Alverta. Scenic Blast. 36 G1 wins in total. I have no doubt that Zakava's opponents probably had the same kind of merit. I don't think we should be trying to pick faults in these two greats. As I've only looked into BCs past form, I'm not entitled to comment too deeply on Zakava's opposition. But I think we sometimes get caught in the trap of downgrading an animal just because they don't face the very best each time they step out. The best only come together occasionally. Thankfully, both Zakava and Black Caviar had the chance to strut their stuff at the highest levels, and show the world that they were/are world class athletes.
On pure natural class, not speed, there is no filly or mare to touch Zarkava. Look at the trouble she got herself out of in the Boussac getting murdered twice on only her second start, easily beating the great Goldikova over her own trip, giving Dar Re Mi a 10 length start in the Vermille winning comfortably, barging an unbeaten French Derby winner out of the way for a run in the Arc to beat the best middle distance horses of that season hands and heels. I dont care if a Sprinter wins 100 in a row by 10 lengths because they are the fastest horse, Class is more than just Speed, no disrespect to Black Caviar as she is a superhorse and its unfair to compare her to a middle distance filly.
I'm not realy convinced that the form of Zarkava's Arc was that special. Vision De Tat may have been unbeaten, but the fact he went off at 5/1, and didnt do alot after the Arc, tells you everything you need to know about his French Derby form. Soldier of Fortune wasnt one of AOBs best, he won an Irish Derby and a Coronation Cup, and probably had similar ability over 12 furlongs to Fame And Glory, and he was more fancied in the market than Vision De Tat, and beat him on the day, finishing 3rd. I also felt the 2nd Youmzain was slightly unlucky, and would have given Zarkava a big challenge, like he did to Dylan Thomas the year before, had he had a clear run, though it was to be expected with Richard Hills on board. She was drawn in stall 1, which is a massive advantage in the Arc, so her lengh or so success is hardly staggering form. Yes she did it well enough, but I wouldn't have fancied her against Dane Dream this year, or Sea The Stars. So for me Black Caviar is a much better sprinter, than Zarkava was middle distance horse
Vision Detat went on to win a Ganay, a Prince of Wales and a Hong Kong Cup. Ask went on to win a Yorkshire Cup, a Coronation Cup and the Royal Oak. Duke Of Marmalade had won the Prince Of Wales, Juddmonte and King George. Soldier of Fortune had won the Coronation Cup and the previous years Irish Derby. Getaway went on to win 2 Group 1s in germany. Miesho Samson had won 4 Group 1s in Japan including the Japanese Derby. Kamsin had won 3 Group 1s including the German Derby. Schiaparelli had won 3 Group 1s and went on to win another after the Arc. Zambezi Sun was also a Group 1 winner over the C+D. Cima De Triomphe had won the Italian Derby. It certainly wasnt the worst Arc you will see and infintely stronger than the Arc Danedream won, to put her above Zarkava is laughable, but you do rate Nathanial afterall. And it was 2 lengths
Zarkava's Arc form wasn't at all bad, She was a very very special filly... @Shergar. Zenyatta raced on dirt and polytrack tell Me where in the world during mid season there are better Grade Ones on that type of surface other than America? The Dubai World Cup is a possible exception... I can see why Zenyatta stuck in her own country to be quite honest and along the way in her career shes beat some very good horses Gio Ponti (2009 American Champion Older Male Horse and 2009, 2010 American Champion Male Turf Horse) Sealy Hill (Canadian Horse of the Year, Canadian Champion 3 Year Old Filly and Canadian Champion Female Turf Horse) Summer Bird (2009 American Champion Three-Year-Old Male Horse) Ginger Punch (2007 American Champion Older Female Horse). In Zenyatta's 20:19–1–0 racing record she beat multiple Grade I winners including: Rip Van Winkle, Twice Over, Colonel John, Richard's Kid, Einstein, Ginger Punch, Tough Tiz's Sis, Cocoa Beach, Music Note, Life Is Sweet, Switch, Lookin at Lucky and Summer Bird, Awesome Gem, Girolamo, Mine That Bird, Hystericalady, Romance Is Diane, Double Trouble, Santa Teresita, Carriage Trail. She was mightly unlucky not to keep that unbeaten record intact the amount of ground she made up in the classic just to be denied by a good horse in Blame was very unlucky. She was a fine fine horse... We all know how much of a freak Black Caviar is, I just think the logic is pretty similar to Zenyatta's owners. Neither wanted there horse to be beat. We all know Black Caviar is the best in Australia shes beat everything two or three times... It only took Richard Hannon and Coolmore one race to realise Canford Cliffs wasn't in the same parish as Frankel its the same here. I just think at the age of 6 she could have took her chance at Royal Ascot/Hong Kong/Breeders Cup sooner. But she hasn't. It's common knowledge that the best sprinters are bred down under, But her global reputation can only be enhanced racing abroad like you say Shergar!
They are all very good mares/fillies on their day and in their own countries. Can you say which is the best out of them? Probably not as they ran over different distances and on different surfaces. Lets just appreciate that on their day (and they all had quite a few) they were great.
