http://www.scotsman.com/news/hearts_fan_fined_and_banned_for_offensive_gestures_1_2046662? Banter, abuse, fair, excessive punishment?
I read your title and thought it must be about cutting someone; something different to the finger across the throat motion. I was wrong. It's about circumcision and Jews. Really? It is an excessive punishment for a hand gesture but I do think being an idiot should be unlawful and they should have locked him up for that reason alone.
Banned from all football grounds in Scotland for six months? Is that a punishment? Bit lenient, for me, but he lost his job, so it's about right if you include that. EDIT: Anti-Semitism isn't banter, Lidls. Don't be ****ing stupid. Is racism acceptable banter, too?
How is it not anti-Semitic? It's not exactly the hissing that we get from the Chelsea or West Ham fans, but it's clearly only about our Jewish connections.
Obviously the hissing relates to people being killed. What do the scissors infer.... the cutting of certain bodily parts...which does happen? Im in agreement with the poster above that stated the guy should just be locked up for being an idiot, I just think it's being a bit soft. Like people getting up in arms if you mention someone as being black.
Are you honestly suggesting this was anti-semitic? It was fairly moronic and mildly offensive, I'll give you that, but was it any more offensive any other more recognisable hand gestures he could have made? An act which was possibly intended to make some reference to one thing associated with the Jewish faith hardly implies hostility or prejudice towards Jews. It was mildly mocking, no more. Should Monty Python be prosecuted for the "Spanish Inquisition" sketch because it mocks Catholics? Get real --------- Yeh...what he said!
That's utter bollocks, Lidls. For a start, the Spanish Inquisition sketch doesn't actually mock Catholics. It's a parody of the Spanish Inquisition itself, which I'm sure most Catholics don't really identify themselves with. If it wasn't anti-Semitic, then how was it offensive, exactly?
I don't see how that could be deemed as anti-Semitic at all. Firstly - circumcision is hardly exclusive to Jews. Its also required in the Islamic faith and is a pretty common practice in America. Secondly - this is very different to hisses (signifying gas chambers) because that is essentially mocking the genocide that occurred to the Jewish nation during WWII. As an orthodox Jew myself, I honestly don't see how that can be deemed as anti-Semitic. It seems ridiculous. I acknowledge that, when it comes to sensitivity, I'm definitely not, but really...come on. This is nonsense.
It's probably an attempt at being offensive but I don't think it really works. All in all a bit moronic but I don't see it as worthy of any punishment.
1. No, can't see how it's offensive--except that he seems to have meant to be offensive, and was certainly, any way you slice it, a real twat. But couldn't be more different than a hissing sound, which would set me off like few things I could imagine. 2. Have to say I prefer my country's approach on free speech issues (though it's not as principled as it used to be). In brief, let people say what they want to say, however offensive it may be. While it's very annoying in the short term, in the long term letting people make asses of themselves has the effect of encouraging others not to do the same. But maybe it only works like that in the US. There's definitely not a fan culture of pushing the envelope of what's acceptable.
I thought this one might cause some difference of opinions, it's a difficult one to be sure. I'm not Jewish, I have a foreskin, (I wonder if most male Spurs fans have?), it wouldn't bother me in the slightest such a gesture, even if I worked out what he was going on about. However, I understnd how other other fans could get upset about it. Not easy when such matters end up in court. On the whole I preferred the old terrace days when you could get away with all sorts of banter and chanting. Though I have to stress I was never into racism, because I simply wasn't like that, nor were most of my friends who I went with. Though doubtless a lot of stuff we shouted out in the 60s and 70s would now be counted as racist, but I was very much a liberal in those youthful days, and by the standards of the day wasn't a racist. I hated the violence though, which finished 'terrace culture' unfortunately.
It's intended as an anti-Semitic gesture. That's the whole point in it. His own brief admitted as much: The Sheriff asked about the movement and Mr Runcie (solicitor for the defence) told him that Tottenham Hotspur were a team associated with the Jewish culture. “They are not shy in expressing that culture” he said. “One can only assume the scissor-type motion might have something to do with circumcision which is commonly associated with the Jewish faith”. There are limits to freedom of speech in every country.
They don't even use scissors. Knife for babies; special tool for adults. And I know, because I had mine removed when I was 18 years old. 32 stitches(!!!), which I boast about when the subject crops up. And when the subject crops up, it's amazing how many others say they've had it done too. Out of my circle of a dozen mates, half are Roundheads, none of us Jewish or American.
I too am of the Jewish faith and I see this as an idiot trying to " have a bit of wind up". However anti- Semitic I don't think so it's a long bow to draw, but the authorities obviously thought it was and dealt with it accordingly. I went through high school with ignorant people who thought it was really funny to make the hissing noises until I smacked one of in the mouth and then when it was learned in history classes it stopped.
I'd have laughed at him for thinking it was an insult...what fukin idiot let Edward Scissorhands in! Evenin Luke
Another 'True Yid' here, and I must say I fully agree with the general argument being made here. Whilst this plank's actions were stupid and extremely childish, the bottom line is that he was 'mocking' a sacred and central custom of a religion which has been going strong for 3000-odd years. We've been around ever so slightly more than football. And Hearts of Midlothian, for that matter; and the rite of circumcision marks the entrance of a Jewish child into this 3000 year old heritage and culture. Quite frankly, it is a physical testimony to my beliefs and faith and I am proud of it- let him mock to his heart's content something that he cannot and could not understand. What always struck a raw nerve when at the Lane was- as numerous posters have mentioned- the oh-so-intelligent hissing noises from away fans. My wife lost half her extended family in the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Mathausen and Treblinka, and it is f***ing out of order that people should feel the need to desecrate the memories of the dead for the sake of a game of football. The fact that more heinous gestures such as this have been going unnoticed for years is a shame. However, on a more positive note, this action, combined with the successful prosecution of Suarez and the 'Pool fan, as well as the imminent inquiry into the actions of our beloved England Captain and National Role Model/Hero Long May He Reign Over Us Amen Terry, drives home one clear, unequivocal message: Unlike Mr.Blatter. Unlike Russia. Unlike Poland. Unlike so many other countries, the British game will NOT tolerate racism. Yes, it is an existent and sometimes widespread problem. But to their credit, the FA and SFA are working bloody hard to solve it once and for all.
