Remember when we had substance from the wing?

A lot's been made of our lack of substance in goals, assists and chances created from the wing this season. Yet I can't see our manager changing it that much. Obviously we are team that want's our wingers to defend first and attack second.

Wouldn't be my choice. As I understand it your wide men are supposed to create goals first and help out at the back second.

A little stat that came out yesterday of the amount of chances our wide men have created this season compared to others in the Prem: Jonas -17, Obertan - 18, Larsson - 33, Etherington - 27, Downing - 37, Hoolihan - 27, Brunt - 30.

Add to the fact Jonas and Gab have one goal and 2 assists between them. It's a bit pathetic to say the least.

When we signed HBA I was convinced that this lad would take over from Laurent Robert and David Ginola's lead and be our next flying french winger. The No.10 role is probably his best position, but so was Ginola's and Robert's. They both played in this role in France but it didn't suit the way we played so they were put out on the left wing.

Jonas works hard but has very limited ability to create. It's criminal after 3 years. Ober also works hard but is continuing to frustrate....a lot.

Based on what we saw vs WBA, Vuckic looks a genuine talent. Playing in the No.10 role seems his best position also, but we cant have a team full of players in the No.10 role.

If we started with HBA and/or Vuckic in a wide area I guarantee we would have a lot more production in the wide areas. Until we sign an out and out winger with the talent to at least threaten the goal. Get HBA and Vuckic in the team. If its a 4-3-3 so be it. Just get the most talented, creative players on the pitch.....nobody says these players won't work just as hard!

(A lot of goals from free kicks - but this is what we miss)
[video=youtube;m-edtGtB-pY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-edtGtB-pY[/video]

 

Not that its going to happen, but i bet Santon and Ben Arfa playing out wide wouldnt take too long to beat that assist/goals tally!

 

When he's firing on all cylinders (or knees) I reckon Santon is a pretty good winger who can defend well - or vice versa..

 

Why cant Ben Arfa create goals from the centre, where he clearly wants to play? Long term if we're that bothered about crosses then play Marveaux and Raylor out wide.

 

Well when Marveaux is back then Marv HBA Vuckic could be our 3 in front of Tiote and Cabaye. Whatever we play, Im sick of Jonas and Obertan contributing nothing.

 

Ben Arfa has created chances from the center actually. One great reserve pass vs Man City, one nice little lob against Man Utd, and he assisted Ba for his 2nd goal vs WBA. Also he almost scored from a central run into man city's defense, and he won us our pen vs Man Utd by another run in the center.

He's been more than effective in the central attacking mid area.

 

So basically, he has created more this season in a handful of games then Jonas and Obertan all season. Says a lot.

 

Jonas is an important player for a lot of reasons other than crossing the ball though, stats can prove anything for you and if he was that bad then Ba wouldnt be scoring so much. He works for the team, relieves pressure and wins free kicks. I would like to see us rotate more in the future when Marv's fit, Jonas is too defensive to play against bottom half sides at home.

 

Away from home agaisnt the top teams, someone like Jonas is a good option. But like you say the lower teams should be put to the sword with purely creative players. Swansea had nothing in attack. Nothing. And HBA cant get a sniff? Unbelievable.

 

I'm sick of people saying Jonas contributes nothing in attacking play. He has had Raylor behind him for most of the season, which I admit has affected his play but that is down to Raylor. Now don't get me wrong Jonas will never be a terrific winger who gets assists and goals with ease, however he does a lot for the team that people don't realise.

 

Lies, damn lies and statistics is an apt saying...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

 

I realise full well what he does for the team. But what he doesnt do is threaten the score sheet or the assists column. He isnt a wing back, he's a winger. Apparently.

 

Whats your point? You can manufacture stats to back up your argument?

 

I wish we had someone as good as Solano, Robert, Milner, N'Zogbia etc now. I read somewhere that Obertan averages LESS THAN 1 cross a game. That is appalling, we need a new right midfielder, and Obertan needs to prove himself as an impact sub, he just doesn't deserve to start at the moment.

 

What an even bigger disgrace is that we scored about 17/18 goals from Bartons delivery last season. Plus a few goals from himself. Let him go for free. Abysmal.

 

Yes.

If you only take one aspect of thier overall game into account then the arguement is skewed towards the point you are trying to make.

What about tracking back? How many tackles in our half? What about fouls against? How many clearances from the 18 yard box?

Do the other players mentioned in your stats have to assist in defence so often?

Both players bring a lot to our squad and work hard all over the pitch.

 

I know full well about this. Just look at Berbatov last year. People say he is class. No he wasnt. His goals tally flattered him to say the least.

But your assuming that HBA/Marveux or a Vuckic wont work as hard as Jonas and Obertan. You assume that what they do defensively will vanish.

I wanna see goals and chances created before I see my winger in the left back position.

 

He is a wide midfielder not a winger. Like I said he is never going to get massive amounts of assists or goals. However, when he is partnered with a proper full back, the left hand side can be very threatening (as he showed with enrique).

As someone (Tash I think) once said, it would be interesting to see who assists the assisters if you get my point because I think that would show Jonas' involvement in our play.

Another point I would make is Pardews tactics. He is quite clearly wanting to play possession football, which I believe has also effected how our wingers play. They both would now rather seem to pass infield than take their man on, which is obviously going to show in the stats department.

 

I still think he can be good for us.

But people on here seem to be either 100% for him starting or 100% for us getting rid of him ASAP.

Personally, I would keep him as an impact sub and give him some match experience in the reserves until he gets more confident. His pace would give us a useful alternative off the bench in the last 20 mins of a game.

He shouldn't be started though. I was cringing for him and at some points actually felt sorry for him against WBA. He isn't good enough at the moment.

 

We've seen tons of chances created in the last 2/3 games alone but we just haven't scored enough. Pushing forward so much to get back in the game has cost us dear and if you look at how we played in the first 11 matches of the season, we went forward as a unit and defended as a unit. It worked well for us.

The injuries in defence have cost us dear but the fact that we CAN still create chances is good. We just need to put them away so that we stop playing catch up and altering to a more attacking formation where our defence is open to counter attacks.

I don't know if Ben Arfa will cover Raylor as well as Jonas but I'd doubt he would as he's not defensivley minded.