Off Topic OLOF's political thread

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2020VisionofLeeds said:
I realise you won’t realise….. until you realise….. and nothing I say will help you see it. But I have my reasons for persevering.

What you’ve now done, after the deflection response, is to move onto the ‘they are all the same’ response line. It’s a false response for (at least) 3 reasons:
first, it makes Farage not one jot less unsavoury to say other politicians are unsavoury. My OP was about Farage not some other politician.
Second, the scale is different - £5m to a guy already earning what most of us would say was a lot of cash. It might be the same in principle as Starmers free suit and glasses but the scale is x 1000 or more. Billionaires are not renowned for wasting money, it’s a reasonable question to ask what was said billionaire expecting for his £5m.
Third, there’s evidence some are at it, not all. ‘They are all the same’ is lazy thinking.
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I have some questions/perspectives? concerning the Farage gift- essentially, I am unaware of the UK constraints on gifts to politicians and I wonder if it is different than the US.
1. In the US it is illegal to give unlimited amounts to someone who has declared their intention to run, or is actually running, for Federal public office, or is in office. The limit is a few thousand dollars. It is NOT illegal to provide essentially unlimited amounts to someone who has not yet run or declared their intention to run for office, as long as the giver pays the appropriate gift taxes.
2. The receiver can subsequently declare their intention to run for office and can legally use the gift for their campaign or for any other purpose.
This often creates the impression of impropriety but is not illegal. I am not aware of a time limitation on the decision. It seems reasonable to assume that such a gift could precipitate the decision to run for office.
3. It is possible to "earn" large amounts of money through various financial mechanisms, and these funds can be used for campaigning etc. There are numerous ways to do this this- for example, book deals, documentary deals, lecture tours, sweet deals on the sale/purchase of property, etc. etc.
The Democrats are masters at doing this. For some reason the Republicans don't seem to do it. I have no idea why.
4. There exist super PACs in the US, which can have essentially unlimited gifted funds, but the monies must be used for legitimate campaign expenses.
However, it's often the case that the definition of legitimate campaign expenses is well, stretched to the limit.

In the US Farage's actions would be quite legal if a bit shady, but not unusual, although perhaps just a tad more blatant than often is the case.

Observations? Is Farage's gift subject to the same kinds of limitations and hence is quite legal?
 
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Oh, and having Billionaires assist one political aisle or the other without courting political favoritism is certainly not unusual in the US.
They can have opinions on how things should be, just like the rest of us, and they have the money to act upon their opinions.
For example- Bloomberg, Gates, Hoffman, Soros, Steyer, Zukerberg, Pritzker, for the left, The Koch Brothers, Musk, Adelson, Griffin, Thiel for the right.
Even Trump was once a Democrat (just as I was) but became Republican when the Democrats abruptly shifted to the loony left.
 
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wyn palmer said:
I have some questions/perspectives? concerning the Farage gift- essentially, I am unaware of the UK constraints on gifts to politicians and I wonder if it is different than the US.
1. In the US it is illegal to give unlimited amounts to someone who has declared their intention to run, or is actually running, for Federal public office, or is in office. The limit is a few thousand dollars. It is NOT illegal to provide essentially unlimited amounts to someone who has not yet run or declared their intention to run for office, as long as the giver pays the appropriate gift taxes.
2. The receiver can subsequently declare their intention to run for office and can legally use the gift for their campaign or for any other purpose.
This often creates the impression of impropriety but is not illegal. I am not aware of a time limitation on the decision. It seems reasonable to assume that such a gift could precipitate the decision to run for office.
3. It is possible to "earn" large amounts of money through various financial mechanisms, and these funds can be used for campaigning etc. There are numerous ways to do this this- for example, book deals, documentary deals, lecture tours, sweet deals on the sale/purchase of property, etc. etc.
The Democrats are masters at doing this. For some reason the Republicans don't seem to do it. I have no idea why.
4. There exist super PACs in the US, which can have essentially unlimited gifted funds, but the monies must be used for legitimate campaign expenses.
However, it's often the case that the definition of legitimate campaign expenses is well, stretched to the limit.

In the US Farage's actions would be quite legal if a bit shady, but not unusual, although perhaps just a tad more blatant than often is the case.

Observations? Is Farage's gift subject to the same kinds of limitations and hence is quite legal?
Click to expand...
It is being looked at. Not for legality but whether it breaches parliamentary standards and procedures. As that is quite a narrow investigation, I’d be amazed if they conclude it breached anything.

I rarely initiate debates on this politics thread. I did so in this case as I wondered whether any of Farages supporters on here would have any slight worries about him receiving a personal gift exceeding what most people earn in a lifetime. Not a contribution to campaign expenses. Given who Farage is and his influence on British politics. I was a little disappointed to just get back the usual tropes.

Personally, as a right of centre conservative I am worried our lack of any real controls in this area leaves our political system open to abuse. (They think I’m a lefty, I’m not. I voted Conservative in the May elections, mainly to keep out the Greens in my area). I’m a conservative who is dismayed how values I associate with conservatism seem to be being abandoned both here and in the US).

I think I’ll only comment on football matters in future on here as (with the honourable exception of yourself) I don’t get very thoughtful responses.
 
2020VisionofLeeds said:
It is being looked at. Not for legality but whether it breaches parliamentary standards and procedures. As that is quite a narrow investigation, I’d be amazed if they conclude it breached anything.

I rarely initiate debates on this politics thread. I did so in this case as I wondered whether any of Farages supporters on here would have any slight worries about him receiving a personal gift exceeding what most people earn in a lifetime. Not a contribution to campaign expenses. Given who Farage is and his influence on British politics. I was a little disappointed to just get back the usual tropes.

Personally, as a right of centre conservative I am worried our lack of any real controls in this area leaves our political system open to abuse. (They think I’m a lefty, I’m not. I voted Conservative in the May elections, mainly to keep out the Greens in my area). I’m a conservative who is dismayed how values I associate with conservatism seem to be being abandoned both here and in the US).

I think I’ll only comment on football matters in future on here as (with the honourable exception of yourself) I don’t get very thoughtful responses.
Click to expand...
YOUR thoughtful responses were calling me a twat and a ****er....and the ridiculous comment about topping oneself ... perhaps you should have voted green after all.. just a thought
 
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2020VisionofLeeds said:
It is being looked at. Not for legality but whether it breaches parliamentary standards and procedures. As that is quite a narrow investigation, I’d be amazed if they conclude it breached anything.

I rarely initiate debates on this politics thread. I did so in this case as I wondered whether any of Farages supporters on here would have any slight worries about him receiving a personal gift exceeding what most people earn in a lifetime. Not a contribution to campaign expenses. Given who Farage is and his influence on British politics. I was a little disappointed to just get back the usual tropes.

Personally, as a right of centre conservative I am worried our lack of any real controls in this area leaves our political system open to abuse. (They think I’m a lefty, I’m not. I voted Conservative in the May elections, mainly to keep out the Greens in my area). I’m a conservative who is dismayed how values I associate with conservatism seem to be being abandoned both here and in the US).

I think I’ll only comment on football matters in future on here as (with the honourable exception of yourself) I don’t get very thoughtful responses.
Click to expand...
Well you started it
 
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