Saints expelled from Play Offs by EFL

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I don't know why all the talk is about whether it was public or private land, done in the open or undercover, what level technology he was carrying or how close he was to the pitches.
If Saints have accepted the charge none of the above matters. If Saints admit that he was one of ours, then that is the offense. He shouldn't have been there regardless and that is what we will be judged on. The only other thing I can think of that may be of significance is if it's proven we have done it before.
 
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Owner of Hull saying we should be kicked out as well and his side preparing to play Boro

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I don't know why all the talk is about whether it was public or private land, done in the open or undercover, what level technology he was carrying or how close he was to the pitches.
If Saints have accepted the charge none of the above matters. If Saints admit that he was one of ours, then that is the offense. He shouldn't have been there regardless and that is what we will be judged on. The only other thing I can think of that may be of significance is if it's proven we have done it before.
Fair reasoning ... not sure if any potential mitigating circumstances will make any difference but I'm sure they'll be included in any response.

I still think it will result in a heavy fine and a suspended points deduction (which I would expect we would accept)
 
I am obviously no expert in this but I was wondering earlier around the legal implications for Steve Gibson in all this.

So he owns Boro and also owns the golf course resort thingy.

So I am not sure if under Data Protection laws if the resort it legally permitted to provide the CCTV images of people on public property.

I ran this past my Legal Council...




Legally, this is actually quite an interesting question and it turns on a few separate issues:

  1. Who owns/controls the CCTV system?
  2. What was the footage originally collected for?
  3. Was the sharing “necessary and proportionate”?
  4. Was the footage of a public place or private land?
  5. Was it then used for a disciplinary/sporting purpose?
If the golf resort (owned by Steve Gibson) provided CCTV footage to Middlesbrough F.C., the key point is that UK GDPR/Data Protection Act 2018 does not automatically prohibit sharing CCTV footage between related businesses. It depends on the lawful basis and purpose.

A few important legal principles:

  • CCTV footage containing identifiable people is “personal data”
  • The resort would be a “data controller”
  • Sharing footage with another organisation is “processing”
  • That processing needs a lawful basis under UK GDPR
The most likely lawful basis would be:

  • “legitimate interests”
    or
  • prevention/detection of misconduct, crime, or protecting business interests
Now, where it becomes more legally delicate is this:

If the cameras were installed for:

  • security,
  • crime prevention,
  • health & safety,
…but the footage was later used for:

  • football disciplinary investigations,
  • monitoring employees/players,
  • sporting sanctions,
then the question becomes whether that secondary use was compatible with the original purpose.

That does happen lawfully all the time in practice:

  • employers use CCTV for disciplinary investigations,
  • retailers use CCTV for staff misconduct,
  • police request private CCTV,
  • clubs use training-ground footage internally.
But there are limits.

The ICO (Information Commissioner’s Office) guidance generally says organisations should:

  • tell people CCTV may be shared,
  • have privacy notices,
  • only disclose when necessary,
  • minimise excessive disclosure,
  • retain audit trails.
Your “public property” point is important too.

If the footage captured:

  • a public road,
  • pavement,
  • public car park,
  • or public space outside the resort,
that does not remove GDPR obligations. Public-space CCTV is still personal data if individuals are identifiable.

However, if the resort cameras were simply capturing an area adjacent to their premises incidentally, that is usually lawful if proportionate.

Where things could become problematic legally is if:

  • the footage was obtained under false pretences,
  • there was no clear lawful basis,
  • the sharing was excessive,
  • it was used for purposes completely unrelated to the original CCTV purpose,
  • or there was informal sharing between “Steve Gibson the businessman” and the football club without proper corporate governance.
That last point is probably the most interesting one legally.

Because even if Steve Gibson owns both entities, they are still almost certainly separate legal entities. The resort cannot simply say:
“same owner, so we can share whatever we want.”

There still needs to be:

  • a lawful basis,
  • documented processing rationale,
  • proportionality,
  • and compliance procedures.
In reality though, unless the disclosure was clearly abusive or irrational, regulators usually give organisations quite a lot of latitude where:

  • misconduct is being investigated,
  • reputational damage is involved,
  • or there are safeguarding/security concerns.
So the answer is:

  • it is not automatically unlawful,
  • but it absolutely is regulated,
  • and there are definitely scenarios where improper sharing could breach UK GDPR/Data Protection Act principles.
From a football perspective, the bigger issue may actually be:

  • employment law,
  • evidential fairness,
  • surveillance proportionality,
  • and whether the club obtained/used the evidence appropriately,
rather than some dramatic criminal GDPR breach.
 
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Right, as we all thought. A staff member standing on public land (not trespassing private property) with an iPhone. The training pitches are at least 100 yards away as well. The high tech spy claims of being in the training ground are laughable.
 
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I don't know why all the talk is about whether it was public or private land, done in the open or undercover, what level technology he was carrying or how close he was to the pitches.
If Saints have accepted the charge none of the above matters. If Saints admit that he was one of ours, then that is the offense. He shouldn't have been there regardless and that is what we will be judged on. The only other thing I can think of that may be of significance is if it's proven we have done it before.

No one's saying he's not done it, but using the defence of an iPhone and on public land, to the claims he had high tech spy equipment and was trespassing on private property.

Also shows that Boro were briefing the media and deliberately lying to influence the EFL, imo.
 
I should also add to the post above that whether we benefitted from it or not, it also has no bearing. It's all about our boy observing their training. They would probably want to know if he was sent there by the club or did it of his own volition. Whatever it was wouldn't get us off the hook as he would be a SFC employee but it might have some affect on the level of punishment.
 
I should also add to the post above that whether we benefitted from it or not, it also has no bearing. It's all about our boy observing their training. They would probably want to know if he was sent there by the club or did it of his own volition. Whatever it was wouldn't get us off the hook as he would be a SFC employee but it might have some affect on the level of punishment.

Agree with both this and your last post. The public land thing (though is a hotel really public land anyway?) and level of benefit is irrelevant to the EFL charge.

The latter would come into play for any potential civil action taken by Boro though.
 
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Right, as we all thought. A staff member standing on public land (not trespassing private property) with an iPhone. The training pitches are at least 100 yards away as well. The high tech spy claims of being in the training ground are laughable.
So I ran that past my Legal Council too:


If those facts are accurate, then the legal and sporting picture changes quite a bit.


If the alleged Southampton F.C. staff member was:


  • standing on genuinely public land,
  • not trespassing,
  • not breaching barriers/security,
  • not using specialist surveillance equipment,
  • and simply holding an iPhone from 100+ yards away,

then the “spygate” narrative becomes legally and evidentially much weaker.


Because at that point, several things become relevant:


  • There is generally no legal prohibition on standing in public and observing something visible from public land
  • Taking photos/video from public places is usually lawful in the UK
  • Expectation of privacy outdoors at visible training grounds is limited unless measures are taken to shield activity
  • If the pitches were visible from public areas, the club arguably bears some responsibility for operational privacy

That does not necessarily mean the conduct was acceptable under football rules. Sporting regulations can prohibit conduct that is not illegal.


But from a proportionality perspective, if:


  • a person standing in public with a phone
    was then:
  • tracked via CCTV,
  • identified,
  • investigated,
  • and formally escalated through football disciplinary channels,

an EFL panel may start asking:


  • how serious was this actually?
  • was any confidential information realistically obtained?
  • was there sporting prejudice?
  • was this normal observational behaviour being over-characterised?

And importantly for your earlier GDPR point:


the less serious and intrusive the original conduct appears,
the harder it becomes to justify intrusive counter-surveillance and data sharing.


Because proportionality cuts both ways.


If this was effectively:
“man standing on public land with a phone,”


then a regulator might ask whether:


  • reviewing CCTV,
  • identifying him through external sources,
  • and circulating that information

was genuinely necessary and proportionate.


That still would not automatically make the CCTV sharing unlawful, but it weakens the justification compared to:


  • trespass,
  • covert filming,
  • drones,
  • long-lens surveillance,
  • infiltration,
  • or security breaches.

From an evidential standpoint, the EFL may also consider:


  • whether the person was actually recording,
  • whether anything confidential could even be seen from that distance,
  • whether there was intent to gain unfair advantage,
  • and whether the case is becoming more media narrative than substantive misconduct.

So the newer facts you mention could materially soften:


  • both the sporting allegation,
  • and the strength of any justification for the data-sharing response.
 
No one's saying he's not done it, but using the defence of an iPhone and on public land, to the claims he had high tech spy equipment and was trespassing on private property.

Also shows that Boro were briefing the media and deliberately lying to influence the EFL, imo.
It really doesn't matter what he was using, if it's accepted he was from our club. I'm not sure but I think just being there as a SFC employee to observe their training even without recording gear is an offense.
 
With the World we now live in, I've just spent a few minutes looking at the grainy image trying to see if there are any hints that it might be AI generated!
 
The equipment he used (straight from Dragan's equivalent of Q-Branch) is just so high tech we'll probably never be able to work out what's happened. Heart rate monitor? CO2 levels of players? which Boro striker has an STD? as well as obviously everyone on the pitch's Facebook friends and full family medical history. Probably some dark web programming which can see into the futue team selection. This is some deep state Jason Bourne level ****.

Oh, no it's not. It's an intern with a ****ing IPhone, you absolute pathetic ****s.