We battled hard for a point at Newcastle,first half was very poor from us but when Kemy came on second half it definatly helped the team. What changes,if any do you think we should/could make for the Everton game? My own view is that Kemy must play, also i would stick with Routledge and Sinclair on the wing, im not sure what it is with Nathen Dyer but he didnt seem his normal self when he came on against Newcastle,i was expecting him to make an impact and he did nothing. Sinclair either needs a rest or he needs time to play himself back into form, im sure a goal would do him the power of good, not sure the best way to deal with him,i think rodgers probably does so i wouldnt be suprised to see him start next game. Do you guys think it was tactical to go for just a point against Newcastle ? im not so sure myself as we got mullered first half !! im not sure what the game plan will be against Everton, they are pretty weak up front so im hoping we could try and open up a bit and attack them. Thoughts on the team for Everton ??
This will be a tricky game. Everton are better than their present league position and mullered Norwich. The stats were possession 58/42; shots 28/7; corners 13/0. How Norwich got a draw is beyond me but they did. Twenty eight shots, fifteen on target!! We will have to be on our game. Everton's strikers aren't firing right now, it's true but they have players to hurt us. Saha is always dangerous as is Osman; Cahill must end his drought any time soon and they have a different threat in Drenthe. If we play as we did against Newcastle, we are in for a long, hard afternoon. I agree that Kemy is a must starter for this one. Fellaini will put himself about and Brits and Joe will be out-muscled particularly if Neville, who likes a tackle, starts in midfield. If we can get our passing game back on track we have chances but any repeat of the first half performance against Toon and we doomed. Doomed, I tell you. DOOMED!! Seriously, we can get something from this but the lads will have to be focused from the first whistle. Everton can play football but they can be pretty physical with it - the way they dominated a strong, athletic Norwich side is testament to that. I have a feeling that Everton's season is going to turn shortly, I just hope that it doesn't start with us. We need to pass it, concentrate and get them to do some defending to give ourselves a chance of adding a point or three.
I see the Everton game having 11 or 12 midfielders on the pitch by the end of it. "We'll have the ball for a bit..." "Oh, you've got it. Go on, you have it for a bit." "Give it back, we want it for a bit now." Etc. Unless there's some freak goal, this is my current prediction!
Ivor- I agree with your comments, Everton always seem to start slowly and build through the season, sheamus colmon will be another threat, i think we need to give them something to worry about otherwise it will be the onslaught you mentioned if we sit back and invite pressure it will be curtains for us. Our wingers must be an outlet and we must support DG more if possible, im getting tired of watcging DG run after his own flick ons !!
Of course Agustien should start. Gower is infuriating. He does one good thing then he screws up. Despite the stats that show otherwise he's just not that good. Trouble is Rodgers loves him. Agustien has a pedigree and gives us much more of a physical presence. He can also pick a pass. If we play like we did second half yesterday we might get something at Goodison. As for yesterday I've never seen us park the bus before and it grates with most Swans fans but let's be honest it worked a treat. Despite Newcastle's dominance they only tested Vorm a few times. Nobody who saw the whole game could say our keeper was bombarded because he wasn't. It's all very well saying we should have been more attacking but according to Pardew that's what he was hoping for but we maintained our defensive discipline. Credit where it's due, Rodgers' game plan worked and it's about time we got an ugly point or two and yesterday may well turn out to be one of our best defensive displays of the season. As someone else has said some of our fans need to come down to earth. We were at Newcastle, not Dagenham & Redbridge.
Knackeredjack, did Rodgers' game plan involve us being totally overrun in midfield? Newcastle brushed us away like flies. When we did have the ball it was taken off us and we had a tough time getting it back. When we did, it was either taken off us again or we lost it through an inept pass. We were just awful in that first half and couldn't cope with the pressure and intensity of Newcastle. Had we gone in three down we couldn't have complained. We were better in the second half but, let's face it, we couldn't have been any worse. Full marks to the lads, they defended brilliantly but we were stretched and then stretched even more. That Krul didn't have a save to make is a damning indictment of our general play and we had three shots in the game. It was end to end stuff, all right, from their end to our end. In the first half Britton, Allen and Gower were just brushed aside but fortunately Kemy shored us up when he came on. Gower continues to frustrate - does good things, then puts us under pressure with a terrible pass or whatever. I see him becoming a bench player with Kemy going from strength to strength as he gets games under his belt. We shouldn't gloss over that game because we scraped a point. Let's acknowledge a great defensive effort and be grateful for the point but we have to address the reasons why we were so overwhelmed in that first half. We offered absolutely nothing in that period and I suspect that it was because Toon were so superior to us rather than some master tactical plan of Buck's. No team deliberately invites that sort of pressure and I hope that Buck and his coaches will be working on it. Norway, I loved the comment about poor DG having to chase his own flick-ons. He has to hasn't he because there's all too often no one in support. Yes, our midfield know how to tap the ball around but I think that someone should be telling them that they are allowed in the opposing box.
I am not so sure that we parked the bus - it was more like it was parked for us. Newcastle out worked us, out muscled us, and technically out played us for most of that first half. We didn't have much choice but to defend, defend and defend again. I am grateful it was Caulker and Ash and not Monk and Ash at the center of the defense otherwise Ba and Best would have just tore us a part from the crosses that were coming in. We have this habit - bad habit in my opinion - to drop back and play too deep when pressured and yield far to much territory too easily. This makes it easier on the offensive team since they get more room in which to gather the ball, get settled and come at us again in the middle third - one player up front can't do all the closing down and chasing required. We ought to look at how teams play us - they try to play higher up the field and constrict the space between our defenders and forwards to the point where we can't play through it. Anyway most troubling was our lack of quality and inventivness when we did get position and were able to break out, which we can do at speed, but man do we need to get our thinking caps on when we do that - time after time we were able to break out but were too easily contained by the Newcastle back line, or made a very poor quality pass, or our first touch was woeful and we lost possession. This is what needs to be fixed because it really handicaps us. I would have thought that Sinclair, Routledge, Dyer, Graham and even Allen would have reveled in these sort of fast break situations but when they get into the final third it's as if they run out of ideas. I'd like to see what we do in training and practice matches because if it works there then something is clearly either too easy in practice or it just doesn't get translated into a match situation. Kemy should start in midfield without a doubt against Everton. I don't know what we do with Sinclair. Both he and Dyer and enigmas. Dyer seems to be busier than Sinclair in most matches, is trickier than Sinclair and seems to get past players easier but has limited end product. Sinclair is more direct, can get himself into dangerous situations in front of goal but lacks the final touch, and for most of the game seems to disappear or doesn't hunt for the ball enough because he doesn't see anything close to the amount of ball as Dyer does -- nothing quantitative behind this, it's just my gut impression from watching all of the games. We can't drop Sinclair and Dyer otherwise we're going to have to change shape one way or another - either playing with one winger, or no wingers and relying on wing backs in a Toshack era shape. But our quality and inventiveness in the final third have to improve. Graham has shown, e.g. in the Fulham game, that given the right service into the box he can finish .... but man are we crap on service.
Im not sure it was a game plan TBH. Pardew said they set up to close us down and stop us playing,which they did very well first half, our problem was that we lacked the balls to play the passes under pressure,like we normally do, it would have been no suprise that a team is going to stop us from playing,they all do it nowadays, i just thought that collectively we were poor 1st half, thankfully the changes at half time helped and Kemy coming on give us a player that could hold the ball and give us something to build off, 1st half that wasnt happening . I would go with Kemy against Everton. I hear 1 or 2 posters keep saying things like"we should come back down to earth,its Newcastle or its Aston villa or its Blackburn " etc, well, where do you think we will get points if we cant compete with teams that are mid table in the Prem league ?? its ok saying we need to beat teams around us but so far we have failed to do that. People were complaining that we couldnt beat Norwich away,well they are 9th and Newcastle will be 7th when Liverpool finish murdering Aston villa! Newcastle have also failed to win their last 5 games so why are we looking at these sides with an inferiority complex?? I had us down to actually lose the game but we should stop paying the opposition too much respect, we earned the right to play in this division and last time i watched us play Newcastle at the liberty they were lucky to come away with a point!! We can respect these teams of course but pay them too much respect and it will give them the extra confidence needed to roll us over !!
I actually think we got what we were after yesterday...It's a risky tactic, but Rodgers probably said you've got nothing to lose, just try and get some something. It worked out. Routledge played well yesterday again, it did seem like he picked up a knock though, So maybe Dyer could play. I think he's lost a bit of confidence, Dyer. The more he plays the better he will get imo. Kemy to start. I don't mind Gower, he has the odd mistake and the odd bit of brilliance. Most of the time he is just solid, but people only remember the bad things....thats just what happens, not only in football, but in most parts of life. Gower is a good player for us, and we have picked up some good results because of what he has done for us, so he gets a thumbs up for me. Would like to see more of Moore, and Dobbie. and Lita. Graham must be knackerd!
Kemy is a whole heap better for us than Gower. Yet again it was clear yesterday that when the ball was in the middle of the park with Gower he would either go back or give the ball straight back to Newcastle with an appalling attempt of a pass. Kemy came on, got the ball and his head was up looking forward to pass or where could he run into space going forward. When there was no opportunity then he went back or sideways. Kemy's passing accuracy, strength and intelligence it far superior to Gowers and for me this is why he should start every game ahead of Gower and not just the Everton game! Re Dyer the only reason i think he isnt playing is because Rangel is out injured. He hasnt got the partnership right with Jazz yet and has needed to chip in more defensively as Jazz isnt as good as Rangel and this is where Routledge is better than Dyer. I think Dyer NEEDS Rangel to play well...lets hope he gets fit soon!!
"Toon were so superior to us rather than some master tactical plan of Buck's" .... And how much are the Toon's players worth compared to ours? Of course they are superior. We are minnows. You are living in dreamland if you think we can have our cake and eat it in this League. You praise our defensive display yet criticise our attacking play, which in my view was sacrificed for the clean sheet yesterday. If we came out and tried to play we may well have been mullered. Pardew acknowledged after the game that he was hoping we'd come out but we did a number on them yesterday and it worked. Fact is none of us like to see the Swans park the bus. That's not in our nature. But credit where it's due. Vorm was not tested that much. But I do agree that we were sitting far too deep in the first half even allowing for our defensive game plan. I also agree that we gave the ball away far too much but that was mainly down to the Toon's pressing. Fact is we're a lightweight team. Our midfielders just aren't robust enough for this Division. Worst game I've seen Allen have in a Swans shirt. Gower was shocking. Agustien gave us some steel and we improved second half to ultimately earn a fantastic point at a tough venue. Glass half full or half empty? Your choice.
Ultimately we played poorly, we were away at a team who has only lost once this season @ home and kept a clean sheet against a team who has scored in every home game this season season bar 2 (Chelsea and Arsenal) and every away game bar 1 (QPR). Glass is definitely 3 quarters full at least. And if the performance means Gower has a nice spot on the bench for the forseeable i am willing to push that to 4 fifths. It's not as if we didnt have the odd chance as well...need to work on being more clinical, especially if in games such as this parking the bus may be used more often given our away form!
Jackdan- That is a very good point RE Dyer and Rangel, ive not thought about it like that there is a weakness on that side with Jazz but the boy is doing the basics well and growing each game,he can only get better, Rangel and Dyers partnership was very good so to see routledge making in roads without the forward influence of an attcking full back is all the more impressive. I dont think our attacking play was sacrificed it was just very poor, the amount of final balls in the 1st half that were wasted was beyond a joke! you can credit Newcastle maybe, but i think we made things hard for ourselves which helped Newcastles cause. Im not too concerned about the less robust build of our players in the midfield. People seem to forget that we competed against Stoke,Blackburn,Sunderland,Villa,West brom,Liverpool,Man utd,Fulham and Newcastle in the midfield quite well and had parity. Newcastle 1st half was poor by us but we got better 2nd half. So i dont buy into the fact our midfield cant compete, our weak areas have been final 3rd and defence and the defence is much better now that we have caulker in the team.
Liverpool 6th - 1pt Newcastle 7th - 1pt Stoke 8th - 3pts Norwich 9th - 0 pts Villa 10th - 1 pt Fulham 12th - 3pts This tells me we can compete against these type of sides and we should not be afraid of their reputations, "coming back down to earth " when we are already in the same points bracket as some established sides is being small minded, its early days (or is it) and things will change for sure, but lets not do ourselves down just yet!!
You're right Norway, seeing Routledge making the runs without the support of a full back that he has an almost telepathic link with is very impressive and i'm not having a dig a Jazz when i'm saying that i hope Rangel comes back ASAP as he played very well yesterday but with Rangel injured its almost like having 2 players out!! I think we have proven that our midfield can compete with the more 'robust' teams (apart from in the odd game) but we need Agustien in as his first thought is "forward" whereas Gower's is "back" which in some games may work but yesterday Newcastle were pushing us at every opportunity which should suggest to our midfield is the first chance you get stick it behind them as they are going to be running towards us and therefore that is going to be where the space is. A number of times yesterday Kemy picked up the ball in the middle of the park and skipped around a challenge and ran forward. They were pressing but they weren't flying in, as soon as Kemy started doing that Allen was aswell and they were both striding into the space in front of the Toon back four. Going backwards just added to the large amount of pressure Newcastle were applying
Agree, and Taylor was responsibly for passing backwards 95% of the time too, putting us under pressure when there was a square ball on inside. Taylor looked for the safe option first and its hard to critisize that, but by doing what he was doing it created more pressure on the whole team. Kemy was a safe option in the middle and sheltered the ball and that gave us a foothold in the game, im guessing Everton will be similar to Newcastle but we MUST ask questions of their defence and goalie!! that in its self is enough to take pressure off the defence
drop sinclair and danny for the everton game they are both ineffective away from home. Danny as a striker dont create any chances for himself and he never had one shot on goal all game and did not look like doing, At least with Lita he does take on the defence and tries shots from outside the box.....with sinclair then he is suffering but the premiership has found him out as he is not quite good enough, he was far more effective in the championship last season....give a few others a shot at everton throughout the team.....fresh legs and all that.....
My theory is that Gower is a creative player and when you're trying to create something unexpected it may come off or it may not. The same thing can be said of Dobbie. Gower has a lot of assists this season because he has vision and is capable of a wide range of passing with both feet. He's probably more effective at home. It's all very well Britton & Allen being the darlings of the crowd breaking up play and then laying off a 5-yard pass, but at least Gower TRIES to do something more constructive. In my opinion.
Dai, Danny never got a pass worthy of the name almost in the entire match, so how is he going to create or score a goal? He is the goal scorer. The midfield should be the suppliers and creators. We could have had Messi up front on Saturday and he wouldn't have scored because he would never have been fed the ball. Are you seriously suggesting that DG should be his own creator? As Norway says, perhaps he should cross the ball into the box then sprint like hell to get on the end of it. Enough is enough!!! We have 5 midfielders in all and it is about time they started getting their bodies in and around the opposing box to lend weight to the attack. That's what they are supposed to be there for; that's what they are supposed to do. This is nothing against Lita, I like the guy but would he put in the defensive shift that DG does? It's about time our midfield started being effective at the business end of the pitch. I think they are starting to believe all the hype about themselves, seemingly more intent on passing the ball around and stacking up the stats than getting up to support the attack. Let's face it, it's far easier to knock the ball about in the middle of the park, going backwards or sideways than it is to find a creative pass to give our striker(s) a chance. It also takes far less effort than sprinting back from the opposition box if the move breaks down. I'm not suggesting gung ho tactics but I think we are all agreed that until our midfield push forward more we are going to struggle for goals. Just my opinion but it would take one hell of an argument for me to change my mind on this one.
