Off Topic Starmer/ Reeves: last man standing

Aye mate. The country is broken and will take some fixing.

As a side we need to ween people off Foodbanks and put some effort into training. A charity round my way is running eating on a budget courses and we need to put efforts into that imho.

 

The Laffer Curve is just a way to describe the limits of taxing. Named after an economist called Arthur Laffer.

Basically, it starts with the premise that if you take no taxes at all, then a government has no money.

Or, that if you tax at 100% the government also has no money, as there will be none to take, as we'd all have none left to take!

This obviously implies that there is a limit to the amount of tax which a government can take. This is anathema to some politicians.

Laffer tries to show that therefore there must be an optimum level of taxation. That there must be a point where taxing becomes self defeating and counter productive, and that there is a healthy tax point. Clearly, there must be such a point.

Most economies, for varying reasons have a slightly different " peak" level of taxation. But none have been shown to do other than stagnate or worse at 40% or a very small bit over.

Our economy, by historical examples, has thrived better at just under 40%. We are at approx 42% now.

That's what Laffer was trying to explain. More taxes won't work now really.

 

We are short of plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters l, electricians. We need more medical staff in training and places for them when they qualify.
We need computer geeks etc the list is long.... we need to ensure strategic manufacturing is carried out in the UK, in case of war with Russia or another pandemic.

But what do I know

 

What have the tories got to do with it ffs. I would bet most of the 170k lost are down to the NI rise for employers.

Ooh, I know, lets raise some money by taxing payroll costs for companies. Wait, what, companies are laying staff off as a result. Ah ****, didnt see that coming.

 

Sounds like you know plenty.

We have put so much of our education strategy into getting as many kids into universities as possible. It is a crazy plan still being peddled all these years later. Meanwhile universities are going bust. We need to redress the balance and value trades again. Not everyone needs a degree in marine photography or some such. But when you do suggest we should cut the worthless courses you get all sorts of grief from politics to unions.

Our strength has always been innovators and makers of things. I would argue it is in our dna somewhat. I want to see a government championing these things because it creates wealth. Instead we have a desire to tax wealth creators like they are some sort of pariahs.

Mind you I have been reading about the potential for AI to be a bubble that bursts. If that happens the trouble gets much deeper

 

It has everything to do with the Tories given the absolute economic mess this government inherited. If you can think it can be sorted in a year you need to change your reading from the Mail or GB News mate.

 

I agree with some of that but giving kids some aspiration is not a bad thing but we do need a balance.

As aside who smashed our manufacturing base in the 1980s? Il give you a clue it wasn’t the Labour Party.

 

You right there but because of Blair and his stupid ill thought out 50% to uni, we now have loads of the young with pointless degrees, as was said on a tv advert in the 70s "he's got an ology degree", ie arts history music, might be needed for a small group but not as many as completed now

 

Some posters care more about ‘markets’ than people. Politics is to help people. We need to get the money working for the people and not the opposite. Tax wealth don’t bow down to it.

 

You dont half make a lot of assumptions about people. I never mentioned a year. I dont read the mail or gb news.

But now you bring it up they have had all the power needed with their majority to make a start on measures to correct the mess. They have wasted that time, and indeed done things that have taken us deeper into the brown stuff. I see no difference so far between conservative incomptence and labour incompetence.

 

Who pushed the idea of university education as being right for at least 50% of young people when there was no infrastructure or job market for it. I will give you a clue, it wasnt the conservatives, lib dems or greens. Easy games these.

 

I think when we are paying more to service debt than similar countries to ourselves it is right to take heed of the markets. It costs us huge sums of money to service our debt. Money that if we can save we can do better for people.

 

Of course. Patriotic Millionaire's asking to put more in to help our economy

 

I agree that the wealthy should pay a lot more tax than those on say an average wage.

The problem with a wealth tax, for instance, say an individual's total wealth is assessed each year ( would take an army of accountants etc to do that), then a % charge is levied on that. Something like this has been tried and very little revenue collected for the outlay to achieve it.

We already have a death (inheritance) tax. Tax on interest, dividends and capital gains. Of course income tax, a tax on how much you spend VAT... it could be argued that some form of wealth tax is already in use, just increase the rates? More revenue for less cost?

As the rising welfare bill, both for young people not working (pity wages are not a lot higher than benefits, my son is a single parent with two kids, if his wages go up a bit he will actually be less well off, as he loses benefits!). Then at the other end of the spectrum, 'granny" is no longer sitting in a chair by the fire (with family) but in a care home that costs a fortune.

 

I have no issue with giving kids aspirations.

Party’s putting up tuition fees when they said they wouldn’t stopped a lot of working class kids going to university. Il give you a clue it wasn’t the Labour party

 

how does it stop people from going to university? you dont pay it back unless you are well enough off to do so…

 

Minimum wage is £11 odd an hour now and you start paying it back at £524 a week. So fiscal drag has brought it up to £80 over nmw or £2 per hour . I would suggest that the majority of people will pay it back. I was working in a school teachers house and she was earning enough to pay 40% tax and also still paying student loans back. Double whammy. She convinced her son to become an apprentice electrician to earn while he learned and also avoid student loans.

 

I guess you didn’t grow up on a council estate.