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Discussion in 'Plymouth' started by Plymborn, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    In the flesh luckily not at all.

    There is enough info around without seeing them to see that they are literally rudderless .

    What system are they playing ....and have the players been actually told...they looked completely despondent as Exeter celebrated...a few still photos are all that you need to see that.
     
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  2. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    If you remember notdistant I posted a comment with the content of "lots of calls on Pasoti " last night. "There is enough info around without seeing them" You maybe should have a read over there yourself sometime. My previous may become more clear then.
     
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  3. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know, I can read the runes.

    Second hand information isn't worth the toilet paper it's smeared on is it?
     
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  4. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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  5. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Don't get me wrong though. I have or am beginning to have doubts myself on the goings on at the hallowed ground. We have just had two seasons of woe and worry without having to go through a third on the trot. Jury is out on Cleverley right now and I have every sympathy with that.
     
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  6. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    So second hand information isn't worth the toilet paper its written on ??

    I only know about.....Alfred...William the Conqueror...Cromwell...Henry V111...Nelson...Victoria...etc because of what other people have written about them and we have come to an understanding because of that....that they lived and what they did.

    Recent history....like last Thursdays match has been written about and discussed by quite a few.....and if you discount the extremes of what was said either way ...you can workout that things are taking a familiar pattern that very recently happened not just once...but twice...and even a third time......and waiting until the new year maybe too late to rectify the situation.

    So you need to ask why it is happening.....and we have a guide of a similar situation.....once...twice...three times that it leads to disaster......fans get disillusioned and not go.....finance drops....match day sales drop off and those loses financially hurt the club to go forward.....players become even harder to recruit....othe players leave....such as Lorent Tolaj and others easily get poached to more successful climes......sitting on the fence and saying that we cannot keep changing are manager/chief coach isn't the best thing to do can only be true if you can turn it around.

    Okay we have had a massive turn over of playing staff this last summer.....also on the management side many main people have moved on and we are probably a club low on playing and managerial experience.......but Simon Hallett needs to take leadership at the moment....and hopefully having learned (?) from his mistakes in choosing a team chief coach in recent times.... select a older experienced....been around the block type....to take the reigns and stabilise the team before the new year window opens.
     
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  7. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    You are comparing the world’s greatest academics, who’ve spent a lifetime researching history, who then put their work out for peer-review by other academics and only then publish with average football fans, possibly drunk after going to the pub after the match? Really? That’s the best you can come up with?

    And that’s at best. Believe it or not, there are trolls out there, fans of other clubs perhaps, who adopt false identities on platforms like this just to stir up trouble.

    Hallett is rich by any normal standards but some seem to think that puts an obligation on him to spend his life savings on entertaining them on a Saturday afternoon. It doesn’t. if not him, who?

    To compare Foster and Rooney to Cleverley is ludicrous. You’d have got more enthusiasm and personality from a wooden puppet than Foster and more intellect than from Rooney. How Hallett came to appoint either of them I cannot imagine, I wouldn’t have given them second interviews. Maybe Rooney is better on the training pitch than he is in front of a TV camera, I don’t know. Results say he isn’t.

    Cleverley is a young manager with a recent career at a high level. He’s managing a young squad and you can see a fit there. He’s certainly more convincing in front of the media than his predecessors but that’s not the be-all and end-all of the task it’s true.

    What does concern me slightly is the similarity with David Fox. An older, more experienced Director of Football might have made. A better partnership but then, we don’t know these people personally so we? Also older Directors of Football are a bit thin on the ground, perhaps like old Tech Moguls. The roles haven’t been around long enough to produce experience.

    There has been booing after the last couple of games at Home Park which I find very disappointing. It hardly helps the relatively young players we have in the squad.

    My instinct is to support and so I will continue to support Argyle, Hallett and Cleverley. I’ll also support the players and if other fans don't that then results will inevitably suffer.

    Sacking another manager so quickly when a new young squad are reason enough for inconsistency in results would be expensive, disruptive and just plain stupid.
     
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  8. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    I understand why you say....."To compare Foster and Rooney to Cleverley is ludicrous"....BUT at the cutting edge of that comment we are finding that the end result IS THE SAME.....you could overlay each of those managers/coaches graphs and the result line would be very close to each other.......why do you think that Cleverley's will suddenly alter and start to soar above the relegation line ?

    Cleverley having a playing career at a high level has no bearing on his ability to be a manager/chief coach......beloved players such as Billy Wright...Bobby Charlton tried and failed as managers.....add to that list Wayne Rooney who couldn't adapt his ideas to lesser mortals....or couldn't understand that they were not able to produce the end result he required.

    To equate Argyle fans to being drunks after the match....is a poor comparison....many of them would be straight home possibly with youngsters in tow.

    Supporting Argyle's management and players doesn't equate to success on the field.....they have had some dour results this season before fans started realizing that things might be going pear shaped even with total support.

    Supporting at all costs or moaning at all costs....doesn't mean that being for or against... that these fans aren't desperate for Argyle to do well.

    Nearly a full Div One programme today but without Argyle being involved seems strange.

    .....and what will we be doing.....realizing that Argyle are in a relegation fight and having just been tonked by Exeter....could things gert a worse in October.......at least an extra hour in bed tonight.... probably laying there thinking of the above.
     
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  9. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    When Charlton got promoted last season.......I looked at their squad and decided that they would be similar to Argyle and struggle....possibly finding it harder than we did to stay up.....We were promoted top of the pile with 102pts....Charlton with a lesser performance made it.

    But this very average team is at the moment 5th in the Championship and have won some good points away from home.....so what is the difference.

    Maybe it is because that their manager Nathan Jones.....who had a dismal spell at Southampton....has been inspirational with his squad and has them playing better than the sum of their ability as individuals.

    Nathan Jones as a player never really set the world on fire.....but at the moment he is doing a great job with the players that he has.

    As an example Macauley Gillesphey....who we let go when we reached the Championship (was it because we thought it was a step too far for him) is doing well at the Valley....popping up now and again with a vital goal.........remember he scored for us at Chelsea in the FA Cup.....who would be a manager having to make decisions on a players future career options.
     
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