Will Still OUT

Yesterday yes, but Swansea were probably the most lacklustre team we have played this season, so an in game change to tactics etc could and should have been made, especially in the second half when we did seem to run out of ideas, and the subs WS made were just like for like.
I guess my biggest issue with 3 at the back, as a team that is going to be dominant in most games, you take an extra body out of midfield which in my opinion slows play down as there were numerous times yesterday, we had 5 players that had gone into the middle of the pitch with Armstrong, Scienza joining the 2 midfielders and Archer. That should bring space down the wings but how many times did Jalert or Wellington get level to the box to make a cross?
Most of the threat came from Scienza when he stayed wide and beat the FB.

 

Yeah, I think that's a fair criticism. Though, to be fair, if one of my remaining attacking subs was Damion Downs, I too probably would've left it as it was

 

I think everyone sees 5 atb and assumes defensive, but the wing backs are pushing high.

We definitely were not defensive yesterday, I feel like anyone who says we were is just being disingenuous because they are frustrated, which I understand. But it was our most dominant performance of the season by a mile.

Average finishers put 3-4 in yesterday, that was our entire problem. The club gambled everything on one of Stewart, Archer or Downs coming good.

Poor finishing is the number one reason for our poor start to the season, I think Still has managed to mostly sort out the defence, which is no mean feat given how ragged they were.

 

But the flow of our attacks tend to come from wider areas, I think Still has to come up with a way to integrate Azaz, Fellows, Scienza to best service Archer and that is not solely from the wings. How many through passes through the middle did we see yesterday?

 

What has been said to justify calling some fans entitled?

People are perfectly allowed to voice concerns at our form, results, team selections, tactics, and substitutions and the table doesn’t lie.

We thoroughly deserve to be where we are in the league, and for a team chasing automatic promotion, we are clearly underperforming.

So please can you point to the posts that are from entitled fans.

 

Yeah I'd like to see a back four now to get Azaz in the team, as there's not really a role for him otherwise and with Stewart injured we're desperate for that sort of player to feed Archer.

I just disagree with the idea that 3 at the back automatically equates to being defensive.

 

I watched the highlights back this morning and I would say that the two percieved open goal "misses" from Archer and Adarma were actually difficult not even half chances because of the way and speed that the ball comes to them.
Jander's miss was a sitter and the only poor one imo.

 

No it's not necessarily, but there isn't a need for 2 DMs and you have to consider the forward you are providing. Stewart would be ok , Archer isn't imo.

 

You hit a good point here, there were many occasions where the play was slow and ponderous and mainly transitioning through the midfield. And that was likely as we didn’t have the extra player there so it recycled through defensive lines yet again.

I’m not saying a back 5 is defensive so much, but we do need to click more going forward.
And those that say we win that game 9 times out of 10, well we didn’t and we have barely won all season. We are where we are and the manager needs to adapt with what he has.

Why did we want wingers to play with Fellows and Azaz, and mid Oct don’t appear to be utilising them correctly. Fellows for me needs to do his damage high up the pitch and not in our defensive third.

 

For me back 4 or 5 is all about mindset but I'm inherently biased so take what you want from it.

In a back 5 the wider players automatically have a "I need to go forward but do need to be able to ensure I'm able to cover back" so they play the game with that little bit in their heads saying I can't be too far up the pitch all time" plus the opposition see it as sitting back off them a bit and in encourages them.

In a back 4 those wide players that would be L/RWB are further up the pitch as they get moved to L/RW and they've got someone behind them so they can rove further forward without that bit of fear on leaving space behind them so it's more forward thinking and it makes the opposition know we want to be in their faces a bit more and they need to counter that higher line a bit more.

But in reality it all boils down to the fact I like watching us attack much more then defend...

We don't jump our of our chairs like loonies for a really well defended cross now do we.

 

If you’re playing 3 CBs. When you’re controlling the game, one of them should be stepping up the field when in control of possession. But I’m not a coach

 

Still got it right first half, I do think it’s too defensive a set-up in general and this was always a concern heading into the season because of his career as a coach in France(as an underdog team) and our squad being mainly centre backs and defensive midfielders.
However the team controlled the game first half, moved the ball around quickly left to right and the wing backs kept getting us down the pitch and eventually getting the ball to Scienza in areas where he could do damage.

Swansea regrouped and shut down the flanks by playing deeper, but we changed nothing. This retreat in tactics should have been followed up with an adaptation, as many said on the match thread, lose a centre back for an attacking option, I would have even of been tempted to push THB upfront if he wanted a physical presence for Swansea to contend with, but keeping the same formation with different players(even if more attacking in mindset) did nothing and that one very good move which led to the Jander miss, was the only chance of note in the second half.

 

That, for me was a big part of my frustration yesterday. 2 or 3 times he turned into 3 defenders to shoot when a much more effective pass to a player in space was on. TBH though, he’s always done that but papered over that particular crack because of his goals/assists. For me his decision making is the main reason he doesn’t cut it at prem level and never will.

 

I dunno, maybe the fact that this thread was created in September, after a pretty disastrous relegation season, with a new manager, coaches, players and tactics etc.

You are right, the table doesn't lie and we do deserve to be where we are. But it's funny how some people see it so bad while others can see it differently. Not saying it's great, would definitely have hoped for better but I can see we are moving in the right direction.

Who says we are chasing automatic promotion? Sure that is what everyone would publicly say but who knows what goes on behind closed doors. SR may have hired Still and said to him this season is about stopping the rot and building a foundation etc to go again next season when we will be a team of players used to each other and will cope better once promotion happens.

I think that scenario would actually be better than promotion this season. You are right, everyone is entitled to their opinions....please discuss.

 

I'd be very surprised if the target wasn't promotion this season. Apart from anything else I highly doubt Fellows and Azaz would have left Wba/Boro for a team aiming for consolidation.

I also don't personally believe in the 'consolidate and we'll have a better chance next season' theory. I think there was a lot of truth to that 5 or so years ago but now the gap is so big it's almost always more difficult each season after you go down. I think that will particularly be true next season as it seems like at least one promoted club will stay up so an established PL side or two will come down.

I'm also not convinced we'll have a more settled squad next season if we finish midtable. Charles will definitely be off, Stewart obviously out of contract, sure others would attract interest too. Would likely see a lot of change to the squad.

Add in the likes of Fraser and Arma being a year older. I think our squad will undoubtedly be weaker next season if we don't go up and we'll be up against stronger competition.

I agree that we've not been terrible, just been extremely 'meh' and I think the concern comes from the fact we've not had a single good 90 minute performance yet 10 games in. I doubt hardly anybody would have predicted that and had they done so they'd have been chastised as overly negative.

Let's hope we are moving in the right direction. Certainly too early to be writing off Still or our season as a whole anyway in my book.

 

Suspect automatic promotion will be a reach (though not impossible if we sort ourselves out), but I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be looking at least at getting into the playoffs. It's still so early in the season, and the Championship always takes a while to work itself out.

 

Agreed mate. Still wouldn't write automatic off entirely but might by 5pm on Saturday as we would need to start winning immediately.

I said over the weekend anyone in mid table up until about January can still make a play off charge. In theory we'll soon be approaching the point of the season where injuries start to kick in too which should benefit clubs like us with a bigger squad.

If I had to predict now I'd say we'll be in the play offs but not win them. Long long way to go though.

 

One thing is clear is that WS is still learning and his in game tactics and management hasn't been enough to get over the line in games we should've won.
He needs to start setting us up to provide for Archer as that is our best chance of scoring the goals that we need.

 

Some fans are entitled pricks, because we live in a culture of entitled pricks.

This is not by any means applicable only to Saints fans. It’s the modern world, the “Me, me, me, I demand the best and I demand it now” mentality which is everywhere in modern life.

 

To be fair I really don't think our fans are entitled, I think people have to consider the fact that everyone is rightfully still pissed off about last season (the worst in the clubs entire history) and it means the tolerance this season is less.

I don't think it is necessarily fair on Still who is trying to turn around a sinking tanker, but most other fan bases would be far more fractious than Saints after the last year and a bit we have endured.

I hope the club understand that and stick with him for now, I am not sure what he is supposed to be able to do about professional footballers being unable to score tap ins. I think the side have noticeably significantly improved since the Hull disaster and it simply feels like a matter of our players needing to remember how to put it in the ****ing net. They are getting plenty of chances.