The club finally responds to the fiasco of 20,000 Charlton fans being kettled at the home game v Millwall. I simply don’t believe the claim that the club persuaded Southeastern not to cancel all trains to Charlton that day - the railway simply doesn’t work like that. This entire fiasco must never be repeated.
"Pre-match communication was not effective. He said that the police had asked to be in control of the communication". An absolute f****** whopper, the spanners website 48 hours before the game were advising their fans what was happening regards before and after. "He said that if we play Millwall at home again it is quite likely they'll want to do the same thing again". So the arrangements are going to be the same. As regards the club telling Southeastern to have trains running to and from Charlton that day, they are f****** pulling out more whoppers than Burger King. To put this in print I'd suggest is a total lie, it takes us back to the days of squirrel face.
What it boils down to is that a crowd of Millwall fans is more than the Police can handle. Since those fans cannot be controlled without a mass riot breaking out - hundreds of arrests, damage to property, injuries (to Police officers as well as civilians), and perhaps even some fatalities - the less risky course is to control the home supporters instead. The distress caused to the home fans is the lesser of two evils. However, the Police don't want to admit that there is any crowd situation that they have already conceded before the event that they cannot control. The illusion must be maintained that there is nothing they cannot cope with. The most logical step would be to ban Millwall fans from entry to any away ground. That would have to also include the accompanying step of having no away supporters allowed into the Den. However, even that would likely lead to incidents outside grounds where Millwall were playing. A scenario still considered more dangerous than putting restrictions upon home fans when Millwall are in town. So what we have now is what all safety minded interested parties regard as the 'least worst option'. Sadly I cannot see what else they can do. As a supporter who is not wheelchair bound or suffering from severe mobility issues (my sciatica comes and goes, but is presently not bad enough to prevent me walking to and from the Valley) I found my post-match journey from the Valley difficult and tedious, but ultimately not overly distressing. I was somewhat resentful at the time, but that feeling has passed. I don't know what else can practically be done that would not lead to an increased likelihood of a terrible incident occurring.
Your opening paragraph is what it probably boils down to, although they are overlooking at the MASS overcrowding for the Charlton fans and the potential for serious harm.
Agreed, there was potential for a crushing incident among Charlton fans after the Millwall game. I imagine the safety eggheads give these possibilities some kind of priority rating. For example; Crush incident likelihood 5% assuming nothing spooks the Charlton fans as they gradually funnel out into the surrounding neighbourhood. Riot incident 50% assuming Millwall fans are treated similarly. Serious incident within the Jimmy Seed stand 75% if Millwall fans are held in there after full time. Least worst option (by likelihood anyway). Granted that is only a guess, I've never been involved in crowd control. But I assume that something along those lines is worked out.
I reckon we could lose upto 5k Charlton fans not buying a ticket for the game next season, this would equate to around 170k. Surely this would cover the police bill for not having the same situation. The safety of Charlton fans is paramount over money. The club have handled this situation shockingly from start to finish, culminating in them basically lying regards the train timetable, what else are they lying over?
I'm certainly not happy about the situation. But I can't really think of an alternative that fits within what most other parties would see as a 'less worse option' than what actually happened. And will 5,000 Charlton fans really be put off buying a ticket for Millwall at the Valley next season because of what happened this year? I'm not sure about that. Indeed I would be quite disheartened if that did come to pass.
It may come down to a simple lack of Police manpower. Despite politicians always telling us there are more front line officers these days, the evidence of our own eyes is that there are ever fewer Police on the streets. And on Saturdays of course there are always demos in Westminster that sap their numbers further. No amount of money can hire Bobbies if there just aren't any available. I won't pursue that thought, as it opens a can of political worms. It's just something that occurs to me based on life experience these days.
Saw loads of police vans before the game. I saw only a few officers afterwards. Progress along Harvey Gardens towards Charlton Lane was very slow and pretty tight. Much patience was needed, but fortunately fans were patient with each other. Fortunately too I didn't see anybody fall. Once in the Lane things eased as some folks took different directions. Took me about 20 minutes to complete a normal 5 minute stroll. Not nice, but not actually scary. Though that was only my experience of course.
Pleased that you seemingly came out of it stress free. Apparantly there were just under 300 police there, enough to control both inside and outside the ground, AND to ensure 20k Charlton fans need not to experience what you unfortunately did. Charlton fans safety before money, all day long. Looking at the results from today it will be repeated next season, disgusting.
That statement contains more porkies than you’d find in a butchers. What a shame the feeble “fans reps” present lacked the acumen to pick up on them. Southeastern did not plan to withdraw the train service that day. That is a blatant whopper, a smokescreen.
What are your thoughts on how things could have been done differently, while keeping the risk of serious disorder to a minimum?
Very simple really. You keep the 3,200 Millwall fans in for a minimum of 30 mins, to allow the 20,000 Charlton fans to disperse. What was so laughable on the day that was despite their cack handed arrangements, the Millwall fans looking for trouble were still at Charlton station when we eventually got there, and also in numbers at London Bridge station.
I would be concerned that holding Millwall fans in a stand would lead it to be trashed, and/or set on fire. That could lead to dreadful consequences. Not saying it's right to give those fans preferential treatment simply for fear that they will smash everything up and put lives at risk if angered. But I imagine that's the way the safety egg-heads will reason. Not upsetting the Millwall fans is a key component of being able to handle them without a disaster happening.
Bowing down to the bully boys is not the correct way to handle it - if they wreck the stadium then they get banned from away games and the club get fined - simples
And if some people are badly injured or killed? Not so simple then. I don't like having to bow down to the threat of mob violence. But the price we have to pay - inconvenience for home fans after the match - is a lesser evil than the possible threat. A permanent solution should be found, but I have no idea what that would be. Massive police presence is never going to be possible. And Millwall fans are never going to behave better than they currently do. It all comes down to the stark reality that the Police cannot handle a crowd of angry Millwall fans in a safe manner. A reality that nobody in authority will admit, but is self evident. I would say it is 100% the responsibility of MFC and they should be forced to resolve it. And pay for the extra policing that their fans require at every away match.
Historically, away fans would be kept behind whilst home fans dispersed. This would be okay with most other teams, but we are talking the spanners here, who would probably wreck the joint. Personally, I wasn't bothered, as I stayed behind for a burger and a look round the club shop. But I can understand others' frustrations.
