To my shame I recall using Sharia courts as a scaremongering tactic a couple of times, years ago. I think during speculation about what certain parts of London would become like if Jeremy Corbyn and his Momentum friends ever got to form a Government after the 2019 General Election. Fortunately for all of us (in my opinion) that possibility never became reality. So I'll never know if there was any potential truth in those tactics. The uncomfortable truth is that in many ethnic communities there is a hard core of traditionalist thinking, which uses 'Old Country' laws or cultural practices as a means of maintaining what some see as their 'right' to retain their identity and their values (or in other words, their control over others in their community). Honour killings, FGM, forced marriages... All of these are extreme manifestations of that kind of thinking. It would be wrong to claim the influences that lead to these crimes don't exist. But in my view it is equally wrong for the fear of them to be used by certain politicians and other social agitators to advance their own agendas. Looking back, I think I was out of order to suggest that Sharia Law (in the form of compelling women to follow a dress code, for example) would ever be enforced against non-Muslims (white people) in this Country. I regret to have to confess that it was Islamophobic. I do believe it is wrong of President Trump to use the same tactics now, when his personal record on Conservative (traditionalist) Values is very controversial and his power to impose those values on 250 million people seems alarmingly limitless. And I believe it is wrong for certain people in this Country to play on those fears as well, in order to ramp up cultural tensions. There are Sharia courts operating in the UK, just as there are Jewish courts, and probably courts of other faiths as well, including several Christian denominations. But these are not courts that oppose or defy British Law. They mostly deal with civil community issues within ethnic or cultural contexts - not alternative punishments for serious criminal behaviour. Perceived lack of integration is a whole different subject, and again arguments can be applied to any ethnic or religious community here in the UK, not just Muslim ones. But the term "Sharia Law" or "Sharia Courts" used to promote mistrust and ill-informed fear is sadly too prevalent now. For me it is a symptom of the new age of intolerance we are being led into.
No Israeli fans allowed at Villa Park for the upcoming Europa League tie. How is this protecting Jewish folk and allowing them to live their lives in peace and without fear of attack? Someone needs to answer to this shameful, gutless, pathetic decision.
Can barely believe what I'm hearing about this. If this ban on Jewish fans was only a proposal t would be alarming enough. But from what I can tell it is an action that is being taken. Regardless of good intentions (public safety in this case). The road to Hell is paved with them. No amount of justifications or delicate wording can hide what this is. The decision is obviously and inherently anti-Semitic and is the most un-British thing I have ever heard of. If unchallenged, this will be the clearest step yet along the road to a future without freedom in the UK. A society where liberty is sacrificed in the name of safety. Today, ban Jewish fans from sporting events for their own safety. What next tomorrow - close some Synagogues for the safety of those who want to worship there? If it could be arranged, I would rather see a civilian escort of 100,000 volunteers to protect those fans on their way into and out of Villa Park - a human shield of ordinary folk who believe in their freedom to attend the match in safety and support their team - rather than see those fans banned. If the Police cannot or will not protect them, then we should. I know that amounts a call for vigilantism. Something I would not usually be comfortable with. But we are not sheep. For pity's sake enough is enough. We need to send a powerful message to terrorist cowards who want to hurt innocent people and see their rights taken away out of fear. If this situation is allowed to stand it is a matter of the utmost National shame. And I agree with every politician who has so far come out and said as much. EDIT: This story is rightly headlining the BBC Breakfast News at 6am. EDIT 2: I know that some of the Tel Aviv fans have reputations as hooligans. Naturally I'm not interested in defending the rights of hooligans to make trouble. Any individual person who is identified as a convicted hooligan should of course be banned from the game. And any violent behaviour should not be tolerated. But that is very different from a blanket ban on all fans, unless that is an official punishment imposed by UEFA.
Maccabi Tel Aviv fans banned from attending the Aston Villa away game next month after pressure from the local Muslim MP. An absolutely disgraceful, profoundly un British decision by Birmingham City council. Fvck the Labour Party, keep your vile Palestinian politics out of our lives. @lardiman @The Penguin
What I would call the old traditional Left in this country, possibly folk like you, really need to start standing up & speaking out against this sort of thing. Look the other way, or ignore it, and they will come for you next. It’s real thin-end-of-the-wedge stuff when foreigners and foreign politics dictate whether English football clubs can peacefully host a football match.
Thanks for tagging me @Royston Reincarnated If you've read my reply I think you'll find we are in agreement on this matter. I don't care what weasel words the disgrace of an MP wrote. His actions state that if you're Jewish then you cannot go to the Aston Villa match. That's not the way we do things in the UK. People are not banned from any areas because of their religious faith. There can never be no-go zones for any citizen. Keir Starmer had better overturn this racist crap from Birmingham Council.
That MP should be expelled from the Commons. There is no room for such blatant bigotry in this Country.
I think it would be in everyone’s interests to comment on Charlton in particular. Comments like **** the Labour Party are inflammatory and shouldn’t be posted on here. I make a point of not posting anything inflammatory on here. I am not a moderator but I came back on this Forum to talk about Football. I am not a moderator and it is up to @lardiman but if it continues I will not bother posting on here.
My final word on this subject at least for now is that nothing riles me more than foreigners impinging on our way of life, and imposing their values & intolerance on us. Jewish football fans, and particularly British Jewish football fans, have as much right to support their football teams in English football stadiums as anyone else. It’s no good Starmer with his weasel words now saying he’s “weally cwoss” about this decision - it’s thin end of the wedge stuff. Banning Jews from watching football because of a war I personally couldn’t give two f bucks about thousands of miles from the UK. a real red flag moment.
Birmingham City Council is Labour controlled. Folk like you & The Penguin shoulder no blame, but I would hope would call this stuff out. We can all ignore threads we don’t like.
Agreed. There is a politics thread so that reading this stuff is optional. It must not spread throughout the forum.
It’s only on this thread because politics & football have collided. Maccabi Tel Aviv is a football team, & Muslim politicians have campaigned to stop their fans from watching them.
It's only one aspect. The other is that Maccabi fans are really violent. Do you have any idea what Infantino was doing in the Knesset for Trump's speech?
Millwall fans are really violent, shall we ban them too ? The truth is that this is an issue that tickles a sweet spot for many of the British Left. You personally tend to have a habit of “not wanting” to discuss politics on here, then liberally discussing it, and then retreating when people put the counter argument. I actually found your comment about Trump & the knesset quite distasteful, but I’ll leave this matter here as we all know where we stand on this matter, and I doubt any of us will be having our minds changed.
It will never be right to say to anybody in this Country "You cannot go there because of the religious / ethnic / cultural community you belong to". Restricting movements of individuals convicted of crimes is one thing. Sometimes that has to be done. Banning whole races or faiths of people from areas is totally unacceptable. No excuses, no exceptions, no weasel words. I hope this matter is put right very quickly.
