Mags embarrassing themselves yet again

I've been saying for a while that i'll post my mates dad's theory that a lot of the current mag behaviour goes back to T Dan Smith in the 60s, so finally I've got round to do it now. I apologise now that it's a long read, it covers a few things, politics, history, economics and the media, but it makes sense as one of the building blocks to what they are now, attitude wise.

Basically, there wasn't much difference between Sunderland and Newcastle in the long past, both in terms of cities and football teams. Cities of similar sized populations, similar people living in them and a common enough local identity that "Geordie" was almost a generic term for someone from the north east. My dad was like many from up here that as a young un he'd go to Roker one week and the skunks the next. He even told me about an edition of Football Monthly in the 50s that had picture of Shack and Jackie Millburn on the cover under the heading "no means rivals", there wasn't any real hatred between the teams. But that began to change by the 1960s. And this is where my mate's dad's theory comes in.

Despite the term "the Newcastle blitz", Newcastle got off relatively lightly during the war. A lot of the bombing was the result of the Luftwaffe going after targets outside Newcastle, such as the Duston coal staithes or the Wallsend ship yards and missing their primary targets. Newcastle city wasn't that strategically important. Sunderland was. Sunderland accounted for a quarter of the UKs' merchant shipping, a major commercial port, the numerous coal mines in and surrounding the city, plus the Pyrex glassworks, which made amongst other things the lenses for searchlights. Sunderland accounted for the most civilian deaths and injuries due to bombing raids during the blitz in the north east and an estimated 90% of the cities housing suffered some form of damage. Sunderland also lost a large number of it's grand buildings, such as the old winter gardens and the Victoria Hall. I bet most people have seen the iconic picture of the train wheels that went through the roof of Joseph's toy shop after the old railway station was hit. As a result, after the war Sunderland needed massively rebuilding, especially housing, which is where estates like Farringdon were built. Newcastle needed rebuilding itself, but not as extensively and this is where T Dan Smith comes in. During the 50s he built himself a powerbase in Newcastle, eventually becoming the council leader. He has the ambition of making Newcastle the "capital of the north" and modelled the rebuilding of Newcastle on Brasilia. Because of the influence and control he had, he was able to push through stuff that others couldn't stop and even after leaving the council he still has massive influence on it because of his patronage. He became "Mr Newcastle" and there's even a BBC documentary called "Dan's Castle" from the mid 60s about him (on YouTube if anyone is interested). Because of his power and a pliant local media he began to push Newcastle as the best place in the country and the only place in the north east that mattered. He left the council in 1965 but still held a lot of influence through patronage until his downfall for corruption in the early 70's. But for a while under him, Newcastle was seen as a progressive and dynamic place, leading to the sense of Geordie superiority as other parts of the north east, Sunderland in particular, were struggling to pull themselves together. This got worse when the metropolitan council of Tyne and Wear was introduced. Pretty much everything was Newcastle orientated and if it didn't benefit Newcastle, it wouldn't go ahead. Sunderland didn't help itself at the same time, the council made some hideous mistakes, but it was very much "what Newcastle wants, Newcastle gets".

When shipbuilding and coal mining began to decline in Sunderland in the 1970s, it hit Sunderland hard and this also coincided with Tyne and Wear council coming into being, which drained even more money away from Sunderland towards Newcastle. The metro was actually supposed to have been in Sunderland by 1990, though it was dropped quietly a few years after it had as introduced. Other development schemes were either knocked back or scaled down in favour of Newcastle, such as the Quayside being redeveloped. Even after T&W council was abolished, it still carried on. Years ago I spoke to a frustrated businessman from Washington who said that the Tyne and Wear Development Corporation initials really stood for "The Wear Doesn't Count".

The result is a lot of people from Newcastle and north Tyneside who've been told for years that Newcastle is "special" the most important place in the north, the only place that matters. You see it in the media, when Nissan does well it's great for the north east and a north east success story. Nissan gets in trouble and it's "troubled Sunderland car plant". When Swan Hunters was doing well it was "Tyneside ship building giant", before it collapsed it was a "disaster for the region". It's an easy step when you're told that Newcastle city is so brilliant and important and everywhere else locally is the poor relation to slide across to have the same view about the football teams, especially in a one team city. And when the media is based there and has over 60 years of being pliant and not criticising the city, it's hard to hear a dissenting voice. So you get the basic building blocks if why mags are the way they are, the football club is an extension of the city, because they're told Newcastle is the best place in the country (certainly locally) and they don't travel far outside, they believe it and put other places and by extension football teams down and they've had over 60 years of hearing it, so it must be true.

 

Very good post and covers most of the current reality, just a shame the internet has clouded many of the issues ...

... we were always proud, for a century, to be Geordies but that was all fettled by the likes of T Dan Smith, John Hall and their ilk.

We sang about being Geordies, in football chants all over the country but, nowadays, people simply believe what Sky has told them and have thrown away generations of culture because they know no better.

Growing up near Leadgate I'd never heard the word 'Mackem' and still hadn't when I first started travelling to Roker for matches in the early 70's. Geordies lived everywhere between Berwick, Carlisle and Middlesbrough and were proud to say so. This idea that 'Geordies' were only from Newcastle, couldn't be from Durham or born within the sound of bloody Bow Bells is just shyte.

I grew up in Durham and moved to the East Midlands, to live on 'the Geordie estate', where people from all of those areas came to live ...

... it was only when John Hall started all the 'Geordie Nation' shyte that people like me took exception and changed.

Since then I no longer call myself a Geordie but have taken to calling myself 'Durham' as a descriptive noun. However I still announce 'I'm a Geordie' when thick Mags, at Central Station, shout Mackem at me wearing my Sunderland colours. I've never been a Mackem and never will be, that's specifically a Sunderland term and more of a job description than anything else as far as I'm concerned.

 

Some of the Mags are already calling Woltemade 'world class' ...

... in reality that's only in their own little world.

From the little I've seen of him I'd currently back Chris Woods to score more goals.

 

Great post mate. I love the history and the example of the socio geographic politics prevalent in the North East at that time

 

Newcastle fans claiming Arsenal didn't play nice against them, this was the first minute ...

... both feet off the floor and nowhere near the ball.

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Great post and if you don't mind this scenario happened on a smaller scale on Teesside with the formation of Cleveland in 1968 which took bits of Co Durham, Stockton & Hartlepool, bits of N. Yorks. Thornaby, Redcar etc and lumping it all in with Middlesbrough Borough Council ending up as the governing body in effect to the severe detriment of those other towns aforementioned.
European monies were directed mainly to the Boro area with Stockton & Hartlepool being the poor neighbours and that was allowed to happen during the entirety of the existence of Cleveland, which has now gone thankfully.
As I haven't lived there for nearly 30 years I'm not sure how things are but when returning to Stockton where I lived its sorrowful to see the state that area is in now, despite a huge rebuild of the main High St area it still looks like the poor relation.

Sorry to drift away from the Sunderland/Newcastle theme but thought it was relevant.

 

Got to be careful what I say here....racist content!!

A woman at work could be in spot of bother.
She's a mag s/c holder, and a few weeks ago another employee asked her about the Isak transfer, she replied "dont talk to me about that black monkey, he can fcuk off as far as I'm concerned". Well, the above conversation was overheard by a relative and has been reported.

The woman in question drinks out of a Joelinton mug!!
They're not the brightest in Benwell.

 

I dont know about that. Looks like he got a toe end onto Saka's ball.

 

Wasn't there a similar slow mo where a skunk center half gets hold of Gerryoaks (sp) face and pulls him back?

 

Cracking post marra, and since working in Newcastle from 1984 until retirement 2020 (wfh the last 6 years), it's something I've always felt about them. Great people and friends at work, but there's always that darkness there.

 

You know how we mock them for wearing their shirts for every/any event....

 

They say all brides look beautiful. I am not convinced

 

That just screams
Look at me, look at me, look at me

Absolutely desperate for attention

 

The black and white shoes on the wifey man cringe

 

I’ve never seen a Newcastle match where Joe Linton hasn’t deserved at least a yellow card! He gets away with so much, it’s beyond ridiculous!

 

I agree mate, growing up in the 80s until probably the late 80s, being referred to as a Geordie didn't bother me. I knew technically I wasn't, but it would be a bit like calling someone from St Helens a Scouser, it just seemed a generic term for people from the Tyne and Wear/Durham/Northumberland area. I do think, though, that by the late 80s there started to be a bit of a push back against it. As my dad used to say, if it's not nailed down Newcastle will claim it and being treat as second class while Newcastle "prospered" probably got people fed up. People began being more vocal about Sunderland not being viewed and treat as a Newcastle suburb. Then Hall accelerated things with his "Geordie Nation" bullshit.

My mate, who's dad has the theory about T Dan Smith, said he was 17 doing his "A" levels when he first heard the term "Mackem" being used to refer to someone from Sunderland, on the TV show "Spender". Within no time "Mackem" was adopted by people from Sunderland to differentiate us from Newcastle, even ones not interested in football. It is sad that hundreds of years of shared history and culture has now been trashed.

I will say, though, that even though there's the magpie/Geordie superiority complex, I do think that they are jealous of us. As well as thinking that they're special and superior to us, they want to be loved and admired, so when something happens positively for us, they hate it. Winning the cup in 73, it's not just that we won it, but that it's one of the famous Wembley finals, Monty's save being voted the greatest all time at Wembley, the iconic Stokoe run. But also that we were BBC sport team of the year for it. They'd kill for all that. Add in that the 98 play off final was also voted one of the all time great Wembley matches, all the positive press the SOL got when it was built, Premier Passions and STID. Honestly, they love that, though they're thin skinned enough that the chants of "we've seen you cry on Netflix" would hurt them far more than it did us. But that jealousy and insecurity towards us eats at them, that's why they go on about airports , its petty and childish, but they need it to sooth their fragile egos.

 

They aren't shoes, she's just not washed her feet...