Watched it on mute at a bbq with brother in law on skygo without any bbc feed or social media either. Just silent game. We both thought both teams were poor and boring. Baffling comments coming out now saying Arsenal played not to lose and ‘football won’ with Liverpool scoring and winning. Both teams were as mediocre as the other. and Havertz was absolutely ****e for us for months when he first joined, what are you on about? Rice also took a month or two before he really started playing well. Zubi will be fine and is one of the best in the world. Madueke looks very good. odd that Dowman came on ahead of Nwaneri. Eze surely has to be starting on the left from now on. Sell Martinelli to Saudi now to get some cashola.
Yeah you made the CL semi final and finished 2nd but never really looked like winning either. I actually think your best chance of winning the league was the first year you challenged and had a big league but you dropped points to us (who finished bottom) to West Ham in the space of a week or so. Had you won both those games then you could have afforded to lose at City and likely wouldn't have collapsed like you did. Even the season after a win at home to Villa near the end of the season would have won you it so I don't think it's as simple as City were too good. I think your style to watch since last season is one of the worst in the country at the minute and pretty embarrassing considering how much money you've spent. More dull than any 'top' side I can remember in the last 20 years.
Disagree on Havertz - he was very active in his first few months winning the ball in midfield. He helped the team and made us play better. He just didn't score. I'll never buy into the ridiculous Havertz hate of the time - so we can leave the debate there and agree to disagree. Whatever the story on Havertz, we broke our single season scoring record with him in the team. Gyokeres may need more time, but what he is showing is worrying if we are expecting him to be the guy who makes the difference - and that is what he will be judged on because that has been the cry from the fans. Sign a 'proper' striker and we win the league. I am not offering him any excuses because other players have not got the same. We must break through the 90 goal mark as a team (at least) and win the league for the signing to have been worthwhile. Right now I think we have made a big mistake and am hoping I can change that view in the weeks and months to come.
Agree. We were boring and over cautious today. We need to start taking some chances and liven things up a bit. We might still lose but at least we’ll give it a go today was so flat and placid. We’ve got players who can open things up and Arteta just wanted to sit back and play it safe today
A bit of perspective, If Liverpool were missing... Salah Szobozlai Van Dijk Gakpo would they have beaten us today? Surely that's the Equivalent to..Saliba, Saka, Odegaard and Havertz being missing for us?
What? Saliba didn't play.. He was off after 4 mins. and Odegaard wasn't fit - played 20 mins. But yeah I do think there's an overtraining / coaching issue at the moment.
Sure, but doesn’t excuse our approach today or the lack of quality in midfield and attack. The backwards and sideways passing has to stop. We waste 2/3rds of our possession doing nothing. Too often we refuse shots and forward passes into threatening areas - playing it safe instead. We’re ripe for goal like today costing us the match.
My silence has been due to me being on a family holiday, this bloody result made my already foul mood (mosquitoes and general hatred of package holidays) way worse !! I cannot believe what I saw, from the cowardly starting lineup to the game. What the **** is Arteta doing ?!!! This is 100% down to a stupid system, I agree totally with TheBear on that ! He is not playing to anyone's strengths, Martinelli looks clueless, we have zero creativity, you bring in a prolific striker then don't play to his strengths, incredible cowardice and stupidity from Arteta
Jay, I like Havertz but don't go over the top ! The way we play suits Havertz, that doesn't make him better than anyone though, he is just as likely to miss the target than hit it when through on goal. Gyokeres is a miles better finisher and goal scorer than Havertz. If Arteta doesn't play to his strengths he won't look good, nobody will. Do you really believe Zubimendi who starts for Spain isn't good enough ?? Do you think Rice is a plodding midfielder ? Nobody looks good in Arteta's system apart from Havertz and Saka, everyone else is marginalised.
I just can't see through that starting midfield ! Zubimendi, Merino, Rice. If you had Merino and Rice anchoring and giving Zubimendi creative licence, fine. Could've had Rice and Zubimendi in a double pivot to ensure the midfield doesn't get overrun then have either Eze or Nwaneri as the CAM lynchpin, nothing wrong with that. To start the way we did provided zero creativity. Arteta is anti football.
i am not going to take the system argument HH! We’ve got our striker now so the expectation is he bangs in the goals that Havertz and others were missing, especially in big games. That was the whole argument! That’s what i want to see now. As for Zubimendi , he has looked really poor and way out if his depth. We will see if he can acclimatise. I certainly hope so. i think Rice is a very good 6. Dont see him as good enough in an 8 role.
I agree, we have the striker so he needs to score. That must be prefaced with - the team need to play to his strength otherwise what's the point ?! You could have prime Pele up top but if you don't get him the ball, what's the point. The goal he scored against Leeds was a traditional Gyokeres goal, run into the channel, brushed off a couple challenges, puts the ball in the back of the net. We can;'t keep looking to play pass after pass after damn pass, missing runs that stretch the defence in favour of possession football.
Nobody played him in. Martinelli constantly had his head down, Merino just passed backwards. He needs through balls to run but the only times he got the ball lt was ball to feet. Our passing was just atrocious in that second half.
Playing through balls is a two way street. The striker has to be making intelligent runs. It's not just about the decision and execution of a pass. Gyokeres' movement needs to improve… wasn’t impressed with his off the ball work.
Its going to take time but the problem is old habits - when was the last time we had a striker that played that way (like a traditional CF) ?! When was the last time Odegaard played an Ozil-esque through ball to an attacker ? Its always the same damn thing, Martinelli doubled up so goes back, Martinelli cuts inside and is tackled or has shot blocked, Martinelli goes down a blind alley and runs the ball out or puts in a useless cross. On the other side we either get a useless clipped in cross with no pace from Odegaard, Saka cuts in and tries a shot, Saka goes down the line and puts in a cross that has no danger. Sometimes we get an overlapping run and that player puts in a cross, but its all the same - the defence are not stretched and its easy to defend. We need to get the ball forward quicker, its far too predictable. Who do we have in midfield that can see the run made by Martinelli, Gyokeres or Saka and play that progressive pass early ?
I mean this is what I said for along time about the differences with a false 9 and a traditional No.9 The midfield need to get used to playing balls into space not to feet. But without Odegaard, Havertz, Saka or Eze it was always gonna be rough for Gyokeres. Madueke is very direct, Martinelli can't pass - Merino isn't creative at all either. Still it sounds like an excuse when Arsenal fans say it but.. Liverpool would not have been the same team had they been missing Salah, Szobozlai, Van Dijk and Gakpo. Realistically that's a fair comparison to what we were missing.
You see this is the problem and what I have said from the start of the 'we need a striker' noise. We scored a record number of goals in 2 seasons running with our 'system'. Why change it? Last year was understandable in terms of the drop in goals due to injuries - ALL our strikers were out, the two main ones for half a season! So changing the system HAS to be to score more goals as a team and if we have bought a player who cant operate in a system that broke club goal scoring records, then what is the point? There isn't one unless as a team we score more goals. It's the same argument I made about City - Haaland scores goals in their new system, but the team scores less and they have gone rapidly down hill since they signed him. We didn't need a 'traditional' striker. Our system was fine. We only needed a Jesus replacement - like for like, because he is too often injured - and to maintain the system we had. The area where we were lacking - slightly - to take the next step was not in goal scoring/finishing chances at all, it was in chance creation. We have struggled to break down the low block even when we were scoring record goals there were games where we were not creating enough against such defenses. A traditional striker is not going to help break down a low block - it's actually the worst option. A world class play maker who can also beat players and open up space is what we needed - we don't have one. Odegaard is not that player and Nwaneri is too young and inexperienced to carry us for a season. Rice is woefully short of those skills, Merino can't do it. Eze MIGHT be the answer, but only if he plays as a 10 - we'll waste him out wide. We're in trouble IMO if we change the system for a striker with very limited ability like Gyokeres. Be honest - what exactly does he excel at? He is not that quick, he doesn't hold the ball up well, he's not going to beat players with skill, and crucially he doesn't look particularly good off the ball, at finding space to open up chances... unlike Haaland which is his one world class ability. He'll score some goals for sure against weaker opposition - i think you are going to be disappointed if you are relying him scoring goals like he did against Leeds regularly. I simply can not see how he will improve the team and help us score more goals as a team. Right now he has 1 open play goal in 3 games and has not looked effective at all. I can see him ending the PL season with 10-15 goals, which is pretty much what a striker in our system will generally get. I genuinely hope i am wrong and what he has shown in his early games is a settling in issue - but i want to see something special here that makes opponents scared of the guy and gives off that aura of a player that can win a game at any moment - and crucially adds goals over and above what we could already do. So the bottom line here is that if we change our system we better be scoring 90+ goals and taking the next step or the reality is we didn't need a traditional striker at all. If we're not going to change our system, then Gyokeres was the wrong signing.
