"Subvert people of interest"? What does that mean? As I've said many times, lobbying is sadly a fully legal component of the modern political system. There is a world of difference between political lobbying and poisoning someone sitting on a bench.
subvert /səbˈvəːt/ verb undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution). "the case involved an attempt to subvert the rule of law"
I've no idea what you and Solid are chatting about, I'm watching the womens football. Although I think it's fairly obvious that it's easy to manipulate people of interest, unless you are telling me that you trust all politicians are honourable lol It's 1-1 btw and HT now... please log in to view this image
Lineker's just a Leicester lad from relatively humble origins with a certain disdain for the establishment and the cojones to give his own opinion(s) ... can't find much to fault there for some reason ...
Israel are supposedly our allies, hence the protests here against their actions. That was the point, and not really a complicated one; not sure how you managed to completely miss it. Are you @duggie2000 in disguise?
So you'd expect the UK government to treat one of its allies in the same way it treats a country that has committed multiple criminal acts on UK soil? Slightly backward thinking tbh.
I think Archers is right if I'm understanding this conversation correctly - if a friend morally steps out of line, I'm as likely to give them a slap (verbally) the same as I would a rival. If anything because it disrespects your own morals. Failure to do so puts you at question, and here the story and the moral issue begin...
If your friend calls you a ****, you're right to verbally respond if your friend commits a murder in your living room without you being aware, you're probably going to be a bit more peeved.
Yes. Whether friend or foe, morally the rules should apply equally. You don't turn round and say, that ok mate, go and kill again. Whether it's a Russian on the frontline or a Ukranian, their lives are equally precious. Whether it's Trump or Putin, they are both ****s.
That's why I said, politically at the moment, maybe not (indeed actually diametrically opposed at the moment, Hamas and Fatah have a completely different approach) But Ideologically, the West Bank and Gaza are aligned in that they want Palestinian independence. It's why Hamas need to go and the PA need to be enabled to govern.
And yet Hamas has said that they exist because of the occupation and will lay down arms and assimilate into a political entity if a Palestinian state is established You might not trust them, which is why I mentioned that trust on both sides will have to be garnered for the situation to move forward.
Back in April last year Hamas said that they would lay down arms and hand over governance of Gaza : A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders. Speaking to the AP in Istanbul, Al-Hayya said Hamas wants to join the Palestine Liberation Organization, headed by the rival Fatah faction, to form a unified government for Gaza and the West Bank. He said Hamas would accept “a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the return of Palestinian refugees in accordance with the international resolutions,” along Israel’s pre-1967 borders. If that happens, he said, the group’s military wing would dissolve. https://apnews.com/article/hamas-kh...1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438
And as part of the US ceasefire deal on the table now, Hamas are again willing to lay down arms. Hamas is considering laying down its weapons as part of a ceasefire deal with Israel, sources have said... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/07/04/hamas-considering-laying-down-arms/ Sorry the rest of the article is behind an annoying paywall
Would that be the same Khalil al-Hayya who said this five months later? "Hamas is moving forward until the establishment of the Palestinian state on all Palestinian soil with Jerusalem as its capital." Sounds like his comments to the AP might have been...how do I put this...orchestrated to tell them exactly what they wanted to hear? A sound bite he knew gullible westerners would fall for blindly? Stop falling for their lies. They came into existence in the late 80s specifically to derail the peace process and then Oslo, which is why the PA hates them too. Nothing they have done since then suggests even an inch of genuine remorse or policy change.
Well it's not like it's the first time he's armed and enabled a militant Palestinian group is it ..... Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has confirmed that Israel is arming clans in Gaza that he says are opposed to Hamas. Lieberman, who heads the Yisrael Beiteinu party, had told the public broadcaster, Kan, that Netanyahu had unilaterally approved the transfer of weapons to the Abu Shabab clan. "The Israeli government is giving weapons to a group of criminals and felons, identified with the Islamic State group," Lieberman said. The group, which some see as a militia or a criminal gang, has presented itself as an opposition force to Hamas. It says its aim is to protect trucks bringing aid into Gaza, but critics say it is doing the opposite and is looting them. Strong criticism of the initiative has come from Yair Golan, leader of the Democrats in the Knesset. In a social media post on X he said: "Netanyahu is a threat to Israel's national security. Instead of bringing about a deal...bringing the hostages home and providing security for Israeli citizens, he is creating a new ticking time-bomb in Gaza". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyn2m9yk0vo
See my comment above regarding the US backed ceasefire. And yes, the establishment of a Palestinian state would likely include Jerusalem as it's capital, not exclusively, but as a shared entity with Israel. As it was before the 1967 land grab that captured the whole city for Israel. Remember, East Jerusalem is still illegally occupied under international law.
