I’ve seen a lot of “Ange in/Ange out” polls on twitter today. Once casting my vote, it’s been quite staggering to see the % of fans that are now “in”. The Europa League appears to have changed hearts and minds. is it because he deserves it for winning a trophy? Is it because he’s now shown that we can defend, and be sensible in our play? Are people realising that the 21 matches we’ve lost in the league are perhaps because our attention moved towards the EL? I don’t know. But I still don’t see a successful season unless we address many positions within the team, and I don’t trust Levy to support that process. where do we go from here?
It's worth noting that Man Utd sacked off their league campaign in 2017 to go all in for the Europa League, which does make a mild punchline of talk of the ubermensch's supposed winner's mentality Looking at their league form, you can pinpoint the moment they go from being off the pace to when they decide to not bust a gut in the league and put all their eggs in the Europa basket
It's a purely emotional response with the adrenaline still pumping. The rational decision has to be to sack him. The only reason to keep him is if last night presents evidence of real forward progress, but it doesn't. It presents evidence that his preferred system doesn't actually work and when push comes to shove he'll turn us into peak Stoke City to win games. That's not the kind of progress he promised when he joined and not the kind I could ever support.
Not sure what you're looking at but they lost 5 games all season that year and 3 of them were in the first third of fixtures. They only tailed off at the very end of April. Two trophies, 69 pts, GD of +29. If that's our working definition of 'sacking off', I'd be delighted.
So many things overlooked there First of all, you talk about 5 losses but omit the key detail that underlines they were sacking off the league: 15 draws, which for context 5th placed Arsenal and 7th placed Everton got 16 between the two of them, and what's especially noticeable is how nine of those came from January onwards After that it gets more obvious looking at their form from when they reached the quarter finals they were switching focus, given they got 20 points from 12 games, and that was padded to a degree by playing four of the bottom five in that period, and even then were dropping points to Swansea who had the second leakiest defence in the league
They lost two games in the second half of that season: us away and Arsenal away. That's hardly something to be ashamed of. They had a fantastic season, winning two trophies, and finishing 6th with a points tally often good enough for 4th and a brilliant GD. There is zero comparison between United of 16/17 and Spurs of 24/25. Wigan 2012/13 is a better comparison to what we've just done. Finished 18th with 36 points. We're 17th with 38
If one ignores our glorious CWC victory in '63 and '72 against Wolves, where our greatest ever manager was a trophy generating machine, the remaining 3 European Finals we've participated in, have been fatal for the respective managers/marked the end of their reigns. 1974 v Fejenoord - it wasn't until September of that year that Bill left, but no doubt, this game ended his managerial career. It was his Waterloo. There was an ageing team that had been outplayed and terrible fighting between fans and involving police before, during and after the match. 1984 - Keithy knew he was going well before the match. The victory was just reward for his fabulous service to our club...but go he did, straight after. Right or wrong (it was sooooo wrong) the club made a decision and didn't waver when we won the cup. 2019 - Like Bill, Poch didn't go until a few months after the loss in our biggest ever match...but it must have been a major factor in the decision to part ways...and rightly so. Like Bill, he'd come to a point where his disillusionment with the club (substitute COYS Daniel) was damaging him and it. So, Ange departing soon after this might look strange to outsiders, but it's very much in keeping with our history. Either Daniel grasps the nettle this week, or we sack Ange mid-season, when things are following the same path as the majority of his time here, but the outcome of the final is strangely irrelevant. The right move is always the right move. So Daniel,....make the right decision. Do it early. Get it right and appoint a successor who fits the club profile better. Sorry, Ange! IT'S WHO WE ARE, MATE!
Can't stand the bloke usually but you have to say fair dues to him for that. Took some balls to put that out after what he's said all season...
That game was a real nadir for the club that I have tried hard to erase from my memory. Sadly, at the time I was an inane teenager who cheered on the rioting hoardes with no appreciation of the damage that was being inflicted in the club and the game of football in general. Very bad times... Thanks for reminding me!
Is it just me who’s worried that Levy could be thinking of keeping Ange in the hope that we have the same journey next year, albeit in the CL and damn the PL as a consequence? I really hope this won’t be the case because we may not be so lucky in escaping relegation next time. It’s not worth the risk so let Ange go with his head held high and immortalised in the Club’s history book but we need someone new in to build on our success. But I hope we don’t get an unknown and unproven manager from Italy!
I'm worried that Ange will stay on...and like United with ten Hag, we'll have to replace him mid-season (yet again) and waste more time and money doing the wrong thing. We finished 17th, playing stupid, reckless football...which was totally unnecessary and which we finally ditched altogether when we hit crisis point. I'm instantly reminded of Levy's smirk behind Radcliffe's back. You're a bigger dickhead than him, if you don't learn the lesson ! Backing more of this season's **** (3 EL games, apart) really would be a dereliction of duty.
You're right of course (As is CK) and a large part of me still says let's move on from Ange with our thanks and on a high. But a slightly larger part of me feels that the impetus of the EL result and the resurrection of the clubs hopes and finances for next season MAY make the difference, proper investment can be made to strengthen the squad and the coach will be able to recreate the exciting football of those first 10 games of 23/24 into a more structured and resilient unit. The parallels with 2019 are obvious I know, but not only was the squad in decline then, but we had lost a final ignominiously. It may be a fanciful hope, but I'm not convinced that sacking him now is the solution. However..... Having said that..... If Ange turns around on Sunday evening and says 'thanks lads, but my work is done here, I'm off' then I would not stand in his way. In those circumstances I'd contribute to his plane ticket to Sydney!
I think his preferred style does win games when he has his preferred players playing at the top of their game. Also, his preferred style isn't as fixed as media would have us believe, he has a history of adapting in finals. In this final, Bissouma and Bentacur finally did the business in the middle of the park. Bissouma was a beast. Where has this Bissouma been? I frankly don't care how abysmal it was to watch. We won. If we had all of the creative attacking weapons available in Maddison and Kulusevski, it might have been a better watch, we also might have been more open and lost, or taken it to penalties. Who knows? Who cares? He adapted his tactics to suit the players he had available, and the opposition. Isn't this what many have wanted him to do all season in the league? He has proven that he can do it, and also play with a flourish when the right players are available, and rise to the big occasion without losing his nerve. He has also disrupted Daniel's, and Spurs', pattern of accepting being a nearly team. The man went full pelt in all cup competitions and came out winning one. He was doggedly determined and did not accept coming out of the season empty handed. He said he wins in his second season, and did it. Mentality monster. He said, after coming 5th last season, there is no point being in the CL if you don't have a squad capable of competing in the CL. The same is true now. It's on Daniel to give the man the tools to do the job at a higher level. A deeper squad with a little more experience. He's been saying as much for the best part of a year. Now is the time for Daniel to put up or shut up. It almost doesn't matter who the manager is at this point. I would keep Ange for at least another season to see if he follows through, but that's not even the main issue now. There is no point changing the manager and retaining the level as a 'nearly' squad, as Daniel has been attempting to do too many times at historical points of failure. Poch got sacked because things deteriorated after he wasn't backed enough when it really mattered. Conte could be argued was a similar story. Where was the intent to compete in the CL signings wise, when Conte got us into the competition? Mourinho should not have been sacked before the cup final. Why? To avoid paying some fee? Simply stupid. Ramos was sacked after winning a cup, but the difference between Ramos and Ange is that Ange has still got the players very much on side. They want to play for him. There are players that have signed that haven't arrived yet that want to play for him. Ange's man management, mentality and character is sound. It's not the same situation. Ange is getting the squad into the habit of winning things. That starts with the first win. He nailed it. Yes, the price of the league position was high, maybe this will help show Daniel that the cost of winning is sometimes higher than you hope. Now we are winners. It's an indisputable fact. It's now time to continue the behaviour and make it a habit. I agree with you in that money has to be spent, but even if we don't shatter ceilings and go beyond net spends, we need to at very least balance the squad. Are we going for it, squad improvement wise, or not, Daniel? Are you gonna build a squad capable of winning the league? The CL? It's time for the bold statements of intent with signings. Daniel should at least be seen trying to dance on the metaphorical grave of Man U whilst manoeuvring in the transfer window. Sign Eze/Cunha, attempt to get Kane back [even if it doesn't happen it'd be a solid statement of intent, one last Son & Kane season], reinforce the midfield with options strong and experienced enough that things won't go to **** if Bentancur and Bissouma are out. In fact, improve on on the CMs with a statement signing. Same for Solanke. Give Porro some stronger competition also. Do that and frankly I could care less about sacking the manager, in Paratici I trust. [It'd still be dumb to sack Ange but, I'd be able to come to terms with it easily if the squad was undeniably stronger and more balanced. Why not give Ange a chance with an improved squad?] Don't do that and it's rinse repeat of potential mediocrity for another who knows how many years.
Here's the interesting thing: Amorim said the reason Mason Mount started was to counter our playing inverted FBs...but we haven't actually done that for months, as Udogie hugs the touchline these days while Porro is just as likely to launch balls over the top from deep, which suggests that Amorim had a fixed idea of how we were going to play that was based off data from six months ago, and all he got from that was Garnacho being very vocal about how he should have started You'd think he would have picked up on that, given he was in charge for two of the three previous matches we played against them this season, wouldn't you?
I would providing we don’t actually get relegated! Traditionally spurs were a team that flourished in the cups and that’s okay with me. Still, it would be nice to win the PL but we only ever won the first division once whilst winning the FA Cup the most - previously.
