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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. saintlyhero

    saintlyhero Well-Known Member

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    No one has sold anyone up the river, because nothing has actually been done or agreed upon.
    Dialogue and negotiations have been opened.

    Your comment about the line to peace already being open shows a staggering naivety.
     
    #51441
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    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    Do they? Let me explain this simply:

    Anyone can surrender Ukraine’s sovereignty for them. I could do it. You could do it. It is not a US achievement to give Putin what he wants. It is not a US achievement to ask Ukraine to pay for the pleasure by giving up their rare minerals.

    A line to peace is always there. All parties have always been clear- if Russia leaves dialogue will start. Now Trump has moved the goalposts. Dialogue will start with Russian goals pre-agreed.


    That is not negotiating. That is submission.

    Stop listening to the MAGA cult.
     
    #51442
  3. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I don’t follow US politics as much as others but what “move” can the Republicans make against Trump?
    Can they remove him from office and replace him with ANOther?
    Genuine question for anyone.
     
    #51443
  4. MIsaints

    MIsaints Active Member

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    They cannot. About the only course available is to not pass his proposals. Everything he has done so far has bypassed congress, so unless they want to take him to court there is not much they can do. Eventually there will be a budget required so that is when they have an opportunity.
     
    #51444
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    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    And so far very few have criticised him.
     
    #51445
  6. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty obvious what the tactics of Musk and Trump are - it's shock and awe (with scant regard or care for facts etc) - they shout about so much stuff, like a bullshit factory, and so loud, that nobody has the chance to check it or discuss it before they've moved on to the next thing that takes up everyone's attention. It's quite clever really, because eventually everyone just stops listening because it's too much of an information overload, so they can essentially do what the hell they like.
     
    #51446
  7. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    The senator interviewed made allusions to Trump wanting to silence descent by assassinating political opponents. Death threat already made and confirmed by FBI regarding casting vote by senator for appointment of Defence secretary. Voted under duress

    Alot of Americans are now very worried.
     
    #51447
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  8. Mostlymadeofwater

    Mostlymadeofwater Well-Known Member

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    Let's do climate change first. It's no longer alleged. It's well proven. Not all solutions are good ones. It is something that highlights the lobbies as one of the major issues in politics across most countries.

    To be honest, I only see it flung around by ultra right wing. I never hear the term outside that. I know it originated from awareness of social injustice and, particularly racial, inequality. Frankly all of the values it seems to have been attached to I can only see as positive. If it's based on conformity, it's not tolerance or acceptance. I don't have any problem with people have different opinions to me. What I don't like is mis and disinformation. If you tell me that my acceptance of someones values is wrong because of some made up misinformation, I will tell you that what you have said is untrue (provided I've done my due diligence to do so). If it isn't factual, I might disagree with you and I might even question the morality there because it want others to be accepted for who they are - personal opinion, but it's a slippery slope from casual intolerance to discrimination to apartheid or even worse. Let's do one of the most common - gender. I often see people posting on socials that there are only 2 genders and that they are intolerant of anyone who identifies as other than that. My position is that it doesn't affect me, doesn't affect anyone else negatively, what's the problem? You then get some nonsense about kids in schools identifying as a toaster and schools have to allow that - a very quick google and these tend to end up being well twisted for a purpose. I then go back to what's the problem? Anyway, I live in North West Scotland, so i'm well isolated from the evolution of these terms! I would also see a do-gooder as a positive - a do-badder seems much worse!
     
    #51448
  9. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    Loading

    The inference in the Radio 4 interview Evan Davis had with the senator is that about 50% of Republican senators are very alarmed and are unsure what action they will need to take. I got the impression that they will react at some point and they all fear Trump putting himself above the law.

    I think they will eventually impeach him but not sure how far he will have to go before they do that to him. Trump will lose his supporters once the US economy tanks or another country reciprocates with tariffs. I think the tipping point will not be foreign policy but prosecuting Democrat politicians leading to a charge of treason. He will go for those who previously pursued him and especially the judiciary but can see him.pushing for the death penalty . The yanks will then wake up to the fact he will need to be removed from office.

    Shame they never prosecuted Trump properly before he ran for office.
     
    #51449
  10. Osvaldorama

    Osvaldorama Well-Known Member

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    Absolute tosh

    Trump won by a landslide. No one wants to fund zelensky anymore.

    I know a lot of Americans and not one of them is scared of Trump. Everyone is happy that there is finally a chance for peace and accountability for where their money has been going
     
    #51450

  11. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    One in 60 chdren are born with conditions which could see them described as transgender. It is a medical fact.
     
    #51451
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  12. ......loading......

    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    Actually even science says there are more than 2 genders. Intersex is a genuine thing.

    But yeah, some people are so upset by semantics they want to shout about it like it actually impacts them.
     
    #51452
  13. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    Os

    It is going to happen.

    The interview on PM is available on the BBC website on the Radio 4 if you do not believe me. Trump is not going to last.
     
    #51453
  14. saintlyhero

    saintlyhero Well-Known Member

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    “All parties have always been clear?”
    Except that doesn’t include Russia and just as we all agree it’s absurd to say you can’t have peace without Ukraine, you can’t have it without Russia and just hoping that Putin would give up or get bored hasn’t worked.

    So do we continue this war or do we find a compromise? I’d rather they talk and look for a resolution than just ship more weapons to the front line and continue the human suffering
     
    #51454
  15. Osvaldorama

    Osvaldorama Well-Known Member

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    He won the popular vote.
    He won the electoral vote

    He is doing a brilliant job, exactly what his supporters asked him to do and EXACTLY what he promised. One of the few politicians in history to actually do what he said he would do in his manifesto.

    The crying from the left/globalists/socialists means nothing. You are being fed lies and not living in reality
     
    #51455
  16. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    Putin has made it very clear the war will continue until all his war aims are met, whatever Trump says.
     
    #51456
  17. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Os, everyone is being fed lies at some level.

    If you are following and taking notice of Musk's (incorrigible) Twitter feed, you're being fed more than most. Amusingly if you run his tweet claims through HIS OWN AI SYSTEM, it confirms that in a very large proportion of them, he's talking bollocks.

    The problem is, that he (and his ilk) have no real interest in facts. Their currency is confusing noise.
     
    #51457
  18. Mostlymadeofwater

    Mostlymadeofwater Well-Known Member

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    Can't disagree - Isn't Caster Semenya (800m runner) intersex? I may be well off on that! I do think Biology is almost irrelevant here though. There are people that psychologically don't fit in their skin as it were and don't feel comfortable with the labels we have created over time. Who am I to tell them that they can't be nonbinary or any other choice? I wasn't starting a gender debate, just giving an example of an issue that seems to rile some people up where being 'woke' for me suggests a tolerant and accepting approach. Like I said, maybe I am too isolated from the cut and thrust of society in my 200 square mile peninsula with 300 on it!
     
    #51458
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  19. Osvaldorama

    Osvaldorama Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of this, (except the last sentences). But there are levels to this and to just pretend that trump is pure evil and has no support is ridiculous.

    He has absolutely massive support for all he is doing. To pretend otherwise doesn’t help anyone.

    I, and millions of others around the world think he is doing a fantastic job and handling things well
     
    #51459
  20. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Yes, agreed, pretending he doesn’t have massive support is indeed ridiculous. We can disagree on my last point, that’s fine.
     
    #51460

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