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Grand Prix thread QATAR AIRWAYS QATAR GRAND PRIX 2024 - SpRiNt

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Nov 28, 2024.

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Who will finish first?

Poll closed Nov 30, 2024.
  1. Charles Leclerc

    20.0%
  2. Carlos Sainz

    20.0%
  3. Lando Norris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Oscar Piastri

    40.0%
  5. Lewis Hamilton

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. George Russell

    20.0%
  7. Max Verstappen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Esteban Ocon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Valtteri Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Fred is checking the Ts & Cs on the Ferrari contract for Lewis, hoping they’re still in the cooling off period where they can change their mind.
     
    #21
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  2. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    Another FIA Stewardig circus again today.

    Awful.
     
    #22
  3. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

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    Once again I don’t know where to start…!

    Another apparent masterclass from Max, but seeing Lando’s speed after his penalty, I can’t help but feel we missed out on a big battle to the end, with the McLaren looking much faster on the hards.

    I also came on riled up to break the golden rule and criticise Hamilton on the internet, but I see Jasper was brave first and has hit the nail on the head - a total lack of respect for a team that has given him everything…

    It continues to stick in my throat, but I have to acknowledge again the progress Alpine have made through the year. It seems like they’re continuing to make the big calls and bringing in Doohan for the final race, which is impressively “racy” and very much the opposite of everything I’ve been criticising Renault for for a long time.
     
    #23
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2024
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  4. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, his attitude stinks right now.
     
    #24
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  5. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

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    The stewarding was interesting, but race control was worse. There was admittedly a lot going on at certain points, but it seems indefensible to have left that wing mirror on the straight until Bottas hit it. I appreciate we have new race director in place, but that felt like the one call he had to get right.
     
    #25
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  6. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    I don’t care what experience the race director has .

    An object , laying on the track on the racing line MUST be removed ASAP no question .
     
    #26
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  7. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    And another thing !

    They seem to be dishing out racing licence penalty points , like sweets .

    Norris got 3 yesterday and Albion 2 .

    Worlds gone bloody mad .
     
    #27
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  8. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

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    I guess I understand the Norris one, in the sense that anything that compromises safety, has to be clamped down on hard. Similarly that explains the relative harshness of Hamilton’s penalty in that he was speeding in the pit lane whilst everyone was driving through it under the safety car.

    I do agree that the Albon one seems extreme - even in the context of what seems to be a slightly more strict environment since Mexico.

    I’ve got a feeling what we’re seeing here is a playing out of the battle between the drivers and the FIA.
     
    #28
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  9. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Yes again fair comment it is a safety issue , but I think 3 points on his licence is extreme .
     
    #29
  10. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

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    I had a look back at some of the points history.

    Fernando got three points for his lift that caused George to crash in Aus this year. Various comings together seem to have gotten 2 e.g Verstappen for the crash with Norris in Austria. Procedural errors seem to get 1, like George dropping too far behind the safety car in Miami. Based on that 3 seems fair, but I did note that unsafe releases only get 1 point and the only way I can justify that (given they are also safety related) is that they aren’t really the driver’s fault.
     
    #30
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  11. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    How many points are the officials giving themselves for leaving the wing-mirror on the straight until someone finally hit it? Soon as they saw it they should've bought out the safety car, worrying about which drivers will gain over it shouldn't be a factor.
     
    #31
  12. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    I must admit I don’t go into that amount of detail , but something is just annoying me about the 3 points .

    I know it’s just me , but it’s bloody annoying :steam:
     
    #32
  13. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if you mean on top of the stop go? If so, I think you have to think about it as:
    • The stop go is the punishment (you shouldn’t have done that)
    • The points are the deterrent (do that too many times and the consequences will be worse)
     
    #33
  14. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Just the points .
     
    #34
  15. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    To me the whole 'lift' under waved yellows being the accepted response is dangerous. They are supposed to be "Double waved yellows are reserved for serious situations – slow down, reduce speed significantly, there is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track and/or marshals working on or beside the track"
    IF the FIA are going to enforce the double waved yellows properly then the drivers should be told beforehand.

    I have never been a fan of the lift during a waved yellow section as a safety measure, it's just showing that the driver is aware of the flags but it doesn't make the track safer which is what they are supposed to do. You only have to look at the way Jules Bianchi died, if the waved yellows had been acted on correctly he may still be alive but no FIA just accepts a small lift as being safe. They need to put in similar system to VSC for waved yellows i.e. minimum sector time.

    I think the FIA randomly enforcing rules that they haven't before is not on. They need to spell out what is expected of the teams and drivers. I am all for rules to make things equal but they have to be consistently applied.
     
    #35
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  16. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    To do that, first they need to talk to the drivers. They don't seem to be terribly good at that right now.
     
    #36
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  17. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

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    It’s hidden in the 2026 rules and there’s not been much discussion about it, but they does seem to be provision for the introduction of V2X, which would give a much more sophisticated VSC solution and enable it to be applied to 1+ mini sectors for better speed control through hazards.

    The whole “mini-lift is sufficient” is so old I forget when it came about - I have vague memories of a driver (Hakkinen?) waving through the swimming pool section in Monaco on his way to pole, which might have been the trigger? I do get that these are the best drivers in the world and that just being a touch under the limit might often be enough, but as you say all situations are not equal, when we consider weather, visibility, machinery or people on track etc.

    Ultimately it’s clear that observing and reacting appropriately to the flags is the Golden rule of Motorsport. It’s what they brief you when you go to a track day, or karting or to drive at an F1 race. In this instance it seems Lando didn’t see them and so didn’t even do the accepted “mini lift” hence the punishment is a slam dunk. The severity of the penalty seems to be McLaren’s concern, but it is the same as Raikkonen got the last time this happened (2018) and is laid out in the 2024 standards. It is the harshest in race penalty, short of disqualification, available and for me that fits in that other than deliberately endangering a competitor, what other infringement would be as serious?
     
    #37
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