The Russell Martin debate thread

No being saints fans and having suffered a miserable season some were expecting more of the same. Some even predicted double relegation, which is crazy. In reality we had the squad to finish in the top 2.

 

What needs to be factored into our future, if RM stays, is that we struggle against a high press. This became obvious towards the end of last season when some clubs really went for it and negated our “better” players.
If/when we return to the Championship I would expect a higher number of teams to go full on press against us because they know it might work.

 

It wasn't a top 2 squad. It was top 4 at best. But when you factor in new manager, new squad, new style, then you can only fairly say top 6.

Anyone who thinks we should have walked the Championship last season is totally deluded.

 

Yes, there appears to be some revisionist thinking about last season like it was mostly "dross" football and we should've pissed promotion. Neither is true imo, I was hoping for some good football and getting to the play-offs at the start given the catastrophe of the previous season.
Getting promoted was an achievement and Martin has earned a bit of time but it has to get drastically better than the first half against Bournemouth soon.

 

My point was that Martin did what was expected of him, not much more. I enjoyed the season and we had some great times. But it was clear to many that we would struggle under him in the PL, and boy have we struggled. It’s because of a combination of these 2 points I don’t think we need to continue with him.

He seems to be a very good man-manager (though tougher times lie ahead), aside from this I can’t see many reasons to accept relegation now and retain him for next season.

 

I should have been clearer. The "bollocks" I was referring to was losing best players, keeping the **** ones etc. Getting promoted most definitely wasn't bollocks!

 

Gotcha.

If we go down with less than 20 points, there won't be many clubs trying to buy our players for the sums we want.

Ramsdale, Dibling and KWP will go. But beyond that, I can't see many others leaving. And that really would be a top 2 squad.

 

If he's never going to change his style, this cycle is never going to change though. Until the likely scenario where we don't get promoted.

 

...guilty as charged

 

It's the same as the transfer window, the same as Macca/Stephens getting the blame for the Newcastle goal!

The majority of people seemed to indicate we had a great window, as we did the season we got relegated, then when the chips are down suddenly the we had a bad window!

Macca was criticised for the Newcastle goal until Jack Stephens made some mistakes in future games and then it was all his fault for passing it to AM!

A lot of people thought we would do well to even finish in the playoffs. So to say that RM did what was expected and only just through the final is quite frankly pathetic. Yeah it was bumpy along the way but he did it and fully deserves a fair crack this season.

Getting rid so quick would just be another nail in the coffin of my love for football.

McMenemy, Ferguson and Arteta are just 3 examples of what can happen if you remain patient.

I for one would rather show that patience than make another knee jerk reaction like Jones/Selles!

It's been 6 games FFS!

 

Totally understand that philosophy, and I've been of the same thought, but there needs to be a balance/line between giving someone a chance, and watching them descend into clueless madness like the last game. You need to be seeing some evidence of there being a plan to get out of the mire, other than just trying variations on the one that isn't working.

That's where the issue, and the ultimate downfall is.

 

Only if it's the same people. Got names?

Otherwise you're applying two different people's opinion and then criticising some people for the thoughts of others which is rather unfair imo.

I certainly never thought we'd be lucky to reach the play offs and had debates with people regarding this last season. I don't think it was that many personally, a very vocal minority sure, but most people thought we should be making play offs minimum and challenge for automatics. Which we did.

 

I've been consistent on Martin too. Never wanted him when we were linked initially based on what a Swans sth on here told me and didn't particularly rate his achievements. Said last season even when going well I thought he'd struggle massively in the PL with his tactics when we'd have one of the worst squads.

Never been a fan of the ultra possession style either as have found it dull going all the way back to Spain being the most boring WC winners ever in 2010 and have mentioned that many times before I'd even heard of Russel Martin as a manager.

I gave him his deserved credit during the unbeaten run when he surprised me with the improvements, and then criticised him later in the season when we were getting done by poor teams who simply pressed and squeezed the middle to which we had no answer.

I've never once called for him to be sacked either for clarity. Though I probably will if we lose to Leicester.

 

Yeah starting Monday night with five forwards on the bench and saying the reason was because we need to score more goals is baffling to say the least.

Arguably worse than anything Jones said.

 

I weirdly think Jones is the better manager out of him and Russ.

Not that I want either.

My boys birthday today, both of us dreading the game.

I thought about not watching for a while before Bournemouth, but did watch it.

Not sure I can face it today.

Think he will drop Dibling for AA.

 

I wonder if Nate was watching the game on the telly.

He must have thought that was some weird **** going on, worse than myself.

I think we have someone lined up for the intl break.

 

I never understand the argument of sticking with managers because of McMenemy and Fergie, now more recently, Arteta. For each of those, see Martinez at Everton, Rodgers at Liverpool, Howe at Bournemouth, Kompany at Burnley even Ralph at Saints! That’s just off the top of my head.

As many have said, it’s not knee jerk, it’s seeing that his style is just going to get us overloaded all the time and this has been a concern since the Championship last year when we were getting found out.

I’m just not seeing the signs of improvement and I’m pretty sure a manager with a bit of tactical flexibility would have the sense to see their team 3-1 down with 20 minutes to go and think ‘let’s just stick the big man on and whip it into the box and see what happens’, rather than remaining committed to the painfully slow buildup. Even at 3-0, Bournemouth were playing such a high line that we got caught offside 10 yards into their half. Nobody is afraid of our tactics.