Because I would expect the amount of tax “avoided” (let alone illegally evaded) is substantially higher than what the welfare bill can reasonably be cut by. It might well be higher than the bill in general depending on how broadly you define “welfare”. The greatest trick the murdoch press and right wingers everywhere (including Ronnie Raygun and his “welfare queens”) every pulled was convincing people that the reason we can’t afford things and that national finances are tight are because of people abusing the benefit system en masse. There are people who do. But if you add up them all it will be drop in the ocean compared to tax loopholes and the like And that’s before we even discuss raising tax percentages. It’s you who has seemingly brought up 45% which I don’t think has been mentioned in this thread. What was mentioned is changing dividends and capital gains to align with current rates. But even those aren’t the first “loopholes” to arguably tackle And I think the “extreme” bit was yours references to having the tits taxed off. Again it depends on your measures but the current rates aren’t necessarily considered that and adding a 5% increment at a new higher band would suddenly make this “taxing the tits off” of someone. Intriguingly many US right wingers look back to the 1950s as glory days they want to go back to. Incremental taxes apparently went all the way up to 92% back then. But I suspect their reason for idealising the 50s is only partly economy based (if this is even the basis at all). Something has happened over the years. A big thing being that many don’t seem to understand the incremental part of tax and just see the headline (not Billy btw - it’s clear that is not the case here). And that poisons the discussion from the start
As someone who considers himself economically left this idea that tax avoidance is a bigger/more prudent issue than benefit abuse pisses me off. As a grown adult I'm able to be annoyed about 2 things at once. Should Starbucks, the daily mail and all other businesses have to pay their fair share? Absofuckinglutely. Individuals should only ever be able to pay themselves through PAYE like the rest of us mere mortals. But what equally ****s me off is people not working because they can't be arsed. I don't care if it's only 4 people across the entirety of the country, it needs addressing too.
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Regarding tax, benefits and just maintaining a functioning society, it seems to me to be a relatively simple decision for governments to make. If the jobs that need doing in order for society to function in a civilised manner are considered essential, then government needs to ensure that people who do these jobs can actually afford to live in the country that they are providing their labour for. If those jobs are as previously mentioned, tending towards low pay, then government needs to supplement those low wages with a benefit system that fills the shortfall. If members of the population need support because they don't have the tools to be able improve their economic situation - either for physical or mental reasons, then again the government needs to step up. Otherwise we are admitting as a nation that we don't care about a significant proportion of our population. That part of the population might well have an economic cost to the country but they are also a resource: provider of future generations if nothing else, and we all know that people are worth more than just their financial worth. If people get to an age where they can't work anymore, then a state pension of some kind needs to be paid, as that is the 'contract' that people agree to when they pay taxes during their working lives. Medical care, education and all the other services we rely on also need to be centrally funded because the majority of the working class would struggle to pay for these things if they had to fund everything privately. All of these things are socialist ideas, which some might think is giving handouts to the ubdeserving, whereas others believe that all people need the opportunity to live comfortably in our very wealthy country and should be supported by government. The thing to remember is that if funding were reduced or removed for those that need it, then life would get pretty uncomfortable for those who can afford it because the essential jobs wouldn't get done and the starving masses would be kicking in doors up and down the country. When people are left in a position where they cannot afford to feed and house themselves and their families, then it becomes an easy step to consider taking what you need if it is beyond their reach. Then we have anarchy and a completely ****ed society. Yes, all the things we rely on could be present in an entirely capitalist free market economy but if half the population can't have those things because they cost too much, then the other half of the population had better start looking over their shoulders. Taxation, if applied to everybody could easily provide all the money our economy needs. Problem is that wealthy people hoard money and property and resent paying tax on significant parts of their wealth. The idea that being slightly less wealthy because you've paid a large tax bill does not fill me with sympathy and I don't really care if someone has already paid what they think is enough - that's just their opinion and is obviously going to be a biased opinion. Hoarding of resources causes conflict - if somebody did it with all the wheat in the country then it would be a short brutal reaction that would see the wheat...redistributed. I don't see money or property being any different to wheat tbh. Corporations and very high wealth individuals are the main culprits for not paying enough tax, and that's why the economy is on its knees, not because people claim universal credit to top their wages up so that they can live in a house, not because we pay a state pension to the elderly and certainly not because we support the sick and disabled amongst us.
Corporations and very high wealth individuals are the main culprits for not paying enough tax, and that's why the economy is on its knees, not because people claim universal credit to top their wages up so that they can live in a house, not because we pay a state pension to the elderly and certainly not because we support the sick and disabled amongst us. The root cause of an economy on it's knees is quite obviously the coffin dodging old age pensioners, like me. It's not just paying a state pension that's seen as a problem even if some will have been contributing for maybe 50 years, it's also that "people are living longer". It would normally be regarded as a welcome event to live longer than normal but it's rarely said in a positive manner when it comes to the elderly. Particularly as they no longer contribute and are now a drain on society. Add to that, some are occupying houses that they paid a fraction for (me again) and are clogging up the housing market. They are directly responsible for the fact that 30 year olds are still living with their parents. Those that invested in property in the hope of a comfortable retirement need their balls cutting off. At the very least. These boomers had it really easy getting jobs and cheap mortgages and have deliberately ****ed up the environment for future generations. 80 year old drivers are a menace on the roads and they all wanted Brexit and vote Tory. They also show their irritation very easily. Feel free to add anything I've missed. It's enough to make me book an appointment at Dignitas and leave my house to an undeserving 20 year old I've never met.
I visited a museum in Malaga today - free to EU citizens, I had to pay. I gave up on the idea of trying to explain that I voted remain, as did the majority of my countryfolk. Brexit - the gift that just keeps taking.
The extremes I refer to are ‘tax the tits’ and ‘sitting there with their hands held out’ There are already sanctions available for people who don’t try to find employment, how well they’re implemented I can’t say, but if we off we support then we can very justifiably sanction those who don’t engage with that support Benefits for working families are required when they can’t earn enough to get out of that situation, maybe they should be getting paid more Maybe disability benefits could be reduced by better health care Of course we need to look at both sides, but in a positive way, with carrot and stick
The tactic is always the same. Pit the working man against other working men. Pit the poor against the poor. Pit those who have little against those who have nothing. Pit the incoming immigrant poor against the poor who are here already. All the while the rich sit in their mansions, buying up all the housing stock, laughing their little evil laughs. Right now, the Tory braindead are flocking to BBC HYS to criticise the government for not investing more money in the NHS BECAUSE THEY WASTED IT ON TRAINDRIVERS. Yep. What is keeping you down, my friend, is your fellow workers uniting to demand fair pay. It isn’t the 15 billion given to Tory mates during Covid. No siree. And then on here people moaning about the undeserving poor. The exact same line of thought that Dickens was so angry about 150 years ago. Because blaming those who have nothing for having nothing is a lot easier than admitting that there is enough in the country for everyone to have enough. And then you have rich people complaining taxes hurt them more than others, because when you have more you spend more. You become accustomed to a certain level of living. So it never matters what you earn, your innate greed for more drags you always to the precipice. And what is on the other side of that precipice is yourself, but poor. What an ugly sight.
Hoping Mrs Jab will pick up on this for my upcoming 75th birthday, it's also our wedding anniversary so less chance of forgetting. "Got to be honest we’re a bit disappointed. We were hoping for 1-star from the Telegraph. Always a pleasure to be living rent-free in their heads. Only 3 days left of the exhibition for the launch of our book. 11-4pm @17MidlandRoad, Bristol until Sunday. You can pickup a copy there, sold by @gloucester_rd_books or grab one wherever you get your books. LBDx #ledbydonkeys" JJ Jobsworth a better tag for the reviewer please log in to view this image
I thought they were former conservatives so not exactly the “Liberal Left”. But I think I might be mixing them up with the Lincoln Project
The root cause goes way, way back. The failure to compete with Germany when that country industrialised being one! Anybody in the shipbuilding industry will tell you that when the Koreans and Japanese entered the industry, working practices in the UK were still welded to the 19th century. Even before WW1 German managers attended university to study how to manage people. In the UK in the 21st century, a week's course suffices. (Royal Mail) And then we have product design - British Leyland cars. However, there were outstanding feats of engineering like the HST. Pity the UK did not try to invest more in this product as it was brilliant.
