1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Grand Prix thread ARAMCO GRAN PREMIO DE ESPAÑA 2024

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Jun 20, 2024.

?

Who will finish first?

Poll closed Jun 22, 2024.
  1. Charles Leclerc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Carlos Sainz

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Fernando Alonso

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Sergio Perez

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Lewis Hamilton

    25.0%
  6. George Russell

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Lando Norris

    37.5%
  8. Oscar Piastri

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Max Verstappen

    37.5%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    2,372
    66 laps of the 4.657-kilometre Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya

    21st June Practice 1 12:30 - 13:30
    21st June Practice 2 16:00 - 17:00
    22nd June Practice 3 11:30 - 12:30
    22nd June Qualifying 15:00 - 16:00
    23rd June Race 14:00 - 16:00

    All times are UK times

    Poll closes before Quali.

    Sorry for late posting been very busy.
     
    #1
  2. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,656
    Likes Received:
    29,573
    This is going to be huge in terms of showing where each team is at.

    This is a proper if boring race track.
     
    #2
    ched999uk likes this.
  3. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    14,816
    Likes Received:
    5,936
    Dropped my vote on Max, because it goes anywhere else, they're getting the kiss of death.
     
    #3
    push likes this.
  4. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    25,142
    Likes Received:
    16,213
    Karoon has just called Crofty

    “ King Sausage the 1st “
     
    #4
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2024
  5. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    25,142
    Likes Received:
    16,213
    Brilliant driver helmet views ( IMHO )
     
    #5
  6. Mark Blow

    Mark Blow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,489
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    I’m going for the pointless vote in Lewis to win.
     
    #6
  7. push

    push Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2021
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    450
    Inflicted my vote on Max,because I`ve caught the sarge syndrome of putting the kiss of death on anyone else.

    Really I`d like Lewis or Lando to win this one but I can`t brinig myself to do it.
     
    #7
    duggie2000 and SgtBhaji like this.
  8. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,789
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    I have voted for who I think can win rather than the position for the number of races this time. Went for Lando.
     
    #8
  9. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,656
    Likes Received:
    29,573
    This is going to be down to who uses their tyres best imo.

    Nothing separating 4 teams <diva>
     
    #9
  10. Mark Blow

    Mark Blow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,489
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    Is LeClerc doing another Vettel and having a bit of road rage and hitting another car deliberately?
     
    #10
    ched999uk likes this.

  11. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    2,372
    Did anyone get punished for the bumper car incidents?
     
    #11
  12. Mark Blow

    Mark Blow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,489
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    No idea. I like the fact that Sky have got Bernie Collins in their team, her knowledge makes Crofty look the clown he is.
     
    #12
  13. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    665
    Nicely done Lando. You can tell a great driver by how they step forward when the car approaches the front.
     
    #13
    SgtBhaji likes this.
  14. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,656
    Likes Received:
    29,573
    It makes a race of it now. I suspect this will bot be a ding dong type race but rather a case of who minds tyres tomorrow
     
    #14
    push likes this.
  15. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    25,142
    Likes Received:
    16,213
    I believe they got reprimanded .

    It was practice . If it was qualifying , the punishment would have been more serious .

    If true , I thinks that’s crap . Driving standards are Driving standards no matter what stage of the weekend .

    Here we are from Autosport .


    Why Leclerc and Stroll's cynical Spain F1 practice fouls needed punishment
    The avoidable and unnecessary FP3 contact with Norris and Hamilton goes unpunished by Formula 1 stewards, which sets a dangerous precedent
    please log in to view this image

    Jake Boxall-LeggeJun 22, 2024 at 5:25 PM
    9


    please log in to view this image

    Charles Leclerc, Ferrari SF-24

    Lucky? A little bit. That Charles Leclerc and Lance Stroll walked away from FP3 at Barcelona without receiving anything more than a reprimand for what can be charitably described as 'avoidable contact' left something of a sour taste in the mouth.

    The end of the final practice session at the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya was suffused by something of an ill-tempered air, as a series of drivers jostled too closely for meaningless track position. It was effectively over, but the circuit resembled rush hour in the city centre of your choice during rush hour- and not for any discernible reason.

    It had started when Lance Stroll and Lewis Hamilton had a coming together at Turn 5; Stroll appeared to have been baulked by Hamilton a few corners previously and commented that the Mercedes driver "thinks he's alone on track". Thus, Hamilton took to the outside of the tight infield left-hander to let Stroll through. Instead, the Canadian followed him wide and made contact - an act which damaged his own floor.

    Then, just a few metres down the road a matter of minutes later, Leclerc chopped across Lando Norris out of the Turn 6 kink. The Monegasque was also frustrated by Norris, who subsequently peeled to the inside of the track to let Leclerc take the outside and the line for Turn 7. But Leclerc seemed to list lazily to the left, which also produced more than a modicum of contact between the two.

    https://cdn.motorsport.com/images/m...mg-f1-w08-sebastian-vettel-ferrari-sf70h.webp


    It appeared that both manoeuvres were born out of frustration. They rather carried a similar flavour to Sebastian Vettel's intentional wheel-bang with Lewis Hamilton at the 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix, the German incensed by the idea that Hamilton had brake-tested him under the safety car. This earned Vettel a 10-second stop-and-go penalty and three points on his licence, so there was an apparent yardstick for similar incidents.

    Instead, both Leclerc and Stroll received reprimands. Thus, the message that the stewards have sent out is this: drivers are categorically allowed to hit someone intentionally and only receive a slap on the wrist, as long as they don't do so "dangerously".

    The stewards' reports read thusly, starting with Stroll's contact on Hamilton: "The driver of Car 18 stated that he got impeded by Car 44 into Turn 5 and that upset him. He admitted that he wanted to express his displeasure to the other driver by pulling over on him at the exit. Both cars made slight contact which was incidental.

    "However, the Stewards consider the move made by Car 18, whilst not being dangerous, to be erratic and therefore issue a driving reprimand in line with precedents."

    This doesn't wash. Stroll admitted to driving across Hamilton to make a point and created contact as a result. Dangerous or not, it nonetheless appears to be an attempt to use a car as a weapon simply to relieve some frustrations. It's a decision made on output, rather than input. Nobody was hurt, so go figure.

    please log in to view this image



    Either way, it's slightly more 50/50 than the Leclerc/Norris incident; Stroll could have simply said he'd washed out, or unlocked the steering more than he'd intended, as those are very possible outcomes at that corner. Fair play to him for owning up to it, but his statement that it was an intentional act should be subject to more in punishment.

    The stewards' report for Leclerc's shot across Norris's bow was more egregious, and might even provoke a few nervous laughs in disbelief at what South Park fans might describe as a 'Chewbacca defence': "The driver of Car 16 stated that he got impeded by Car 4 into Turn 5 and that upset him. He then had to abort his flying lap and contended that, while trying to get off the racing line before Turn 7, he misjudged the position of his car and made slight contact with Car 4.

    "Irrespective of any possible intent, the Stewards consider the move made by Car 16, whilst not being dangerous, to be erratic and therefore issue a driving reprimand in line with precedents."

    Leclerc was going at more or less full pelt while Norris had drawn to the inside, looked in his mirrors as he was changing down, and swerved across. At best, one could say that he thought he'd cleared Norris and was too eager in pulling to the left, but that's giving way too much credit here.

    Maybe Hanlon's razor applies here: 'never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity', but knowing Norris was there and then choosing that exact moment to back out of a lap that was already doomed had at least a tinge of cynicism about it.

    Leclerc at least stuck to his word, stating that it was a "misunderstanding" and that he did not intend to force contact between them.

    "I mean the version is very simple. Lando exited the pitlane and I was behind on a push lap," he explained.

    "Then when he aborted, I also aborted, I braked to be alongside him and misjudged so I was on the on the right.

    "I didn't want to impede either the cars behind and so I was a bit in the middle by being frustrated and looking in the mirrors to try not impede and then we collided but it was more misunderstanding more than anything.

    "You're always frustrated when you do that but you never want to touch, because obviously in FP3 that's the last thing you want to do: to damage the car."

    please log in to view this image

    Charles Leclerc, Ferrari SF-24

    Penalties have two roles: to act as both punishment and as a deterrent. And, given there was little of the former, drivers can now indulge in their less savoury fantasies and force contact with one another, just as long it happens in practice, they were blocked, and just as long as it happens at low speed.

    Formula 1 is not the place to play fast and loose with deliberate contact. It's not a 'rubbin' is racing' environment. Trading paint in touring cars is a much less high-risk environment in the context of bodywork with no catch points and enclosed wheels.

    Lock wheels in F1, and somebody's likely to take a short flight and an even shorter stop. Avoidable contact is one thing and carries its own risk; intentionally creating that risk seems to be at odds with all of the growing safety measures present in modern motorsport.

    And it's only practice. It's not a do-or-die pass for the lead, or a last-ditch save for the final point on offer - this is some cars taking part in a glorified test session. It's just unnecessary.
     
    #15
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2024
    ched999uk likes this.
  16. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    2,372
    Both moves looked intentional and so deserve a punishment. The stewards have the data plus the 360 camera view after the session!
    I think they wanted Charles to be in the fight hence no punishment but they had to apply the same logic to Stroll!
     
    #16
  17. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    17,000
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    When it's that blatant, and Stroll even admitted to it, it should be a race ban. The fact it's not even a penalty which effects them at all is maddening.
     
    #17
  18. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    25,534
    Likes Received:
    20,217
    Let's go Lando.
     
    #18
    SgtBhaji, ched999uk and eddie_squidd like this.
  19. eddie_squidd

    eddie_squidd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    2,369
    Hell of a start from George.
     
    #19
    Big Ern likes this.
  20. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    2,372
    The fat lady is singing!!!
     
    #20

Share This Page