(OT) Is Suicide Cowardly?

How many people on here think they'd be able to take their own life? I don't think I could, and I don't think it was cowardly of Gary to take his own life as much as it was an act of desperation. I'd like to think we could leave this alone and let the guy rest in peace.

 

Probably a bit early for the thread to be honest. Not a go at the OP, just a lot of people feeling very raw about the whole thing. From a personal point of view I don't think it is necessarily. It can be but it really is dependant on the persons state of mine. If you are so far gone you're not thinking logically then no because you are not thinking about whether you are being selfish. If you suffer from some form of depression or similar that causes you to have wild mood swings then no because the state of your mind when you took your life may not be representative of your natural state of mind. Its just not black and white, it can be very complicated.

 

This!

I dont think I could take my own life. But, hey, we all probably say that. Its something you cant really answer unless you;ve been in the situation Gary found himself in

 

Its a difficult subject, its easy to judge when I imagine few/none on here have been there. To drive somebody to this is desperation not cowardice in my opinion.

 

No because it takes balls

 

C + P'ed from the Speed thread

Coming from someone who knew two people who have taken their own lives, to say it was 'selfish' or 'cowardly' or that the person had a such a great life really simplifies not just the situation, but the human mind as well. Obviously we don't know why it had happened, but it's more than likely Gary saw no other option; I guess he was suffering from depression and literally saw no other way out. Suicide is an absolutely tragedy and it must be horrible for all involved in this. This incident brings back bad memories for me and brings back that scare that whatever someone looks like on the exterior, they could be going through hell on the inside.

How do you truly define 'cowardice' anyway?

 

It's something I say I couldnt do, but do we really know what makes a person snap to take their own life.

Anyone who takes their own life must be in so much torment it's just so sad.

 

I was just about to post a thread like this when I saw this.

The answer is NO. Depression is a mental disorder, people who claim that people with depression are "cowards" are showing unbelievable mental ignorance.

If you have doubts about that, I couldn't recommend Marcus Trescothick's book more, it deals with the issue, and it really made me view the problem in a whole new different light.

The people on GC calling Gary Speed a "coward" are just repulsive, cretinous excuses for humans. I would be interested to see their reaction if a close family member took their own life after a battle with what can also be described a physical disease.

 

Is it selfish? Yes.

Once someone commits suicide, who has to deal with the pain, grief and heartbreak for the rest of their lives? Their loved ones. Who has to grow up a widow? Who has to grow up without a mother or father?

Let's take a look at the definition of selfish:

If someone commits suicide, have they taken into account the years of grief and heartbreak they will cause their loved ones? Their kids? Wife/husband? Parents? Friends? No. The ramifications are massive, and it can literally crush the lives of numerous people. If that isn't a good enough reason to do anything but commit suicide, then I consider it a selfish act.

What I consider even more selfish is hanging yourself where your spouse or even your own kids can find you hanging there dead - pretty much traumatising them forever. If someone does that, then they literally haven't taken anyone elses feelings into account whatsoever.

It's an absolute tragedy, but by definition, it's a selfish act.

 

Don't think some people realise how debilitating and crushing severe depression is. It effects your ability to make even the most seemingly simple decision or reason the most simple of dilemmas.

 

I don't doubt that personally. My point is just that, by definition, it's a selfish act.

 

I know how serious it is my Mam had it and tried to kill herself. I thought she was pretty selfish to be honest, the ramifications it would have had don't bear thinking about and to be honest I think it is a stupid way to try and sort out your problems. However it is not as simple as that, most people who try to commit suicide don't want to die (silly as it sounds) they just want people to notice they have a problem and get help/sort their problems out and often suicide in their heads which are no way thinking rationally seems the only way out. Depression is a ridiculous illness in theory, as harsh as that sounds and most people have no real reason for being depressed, all they know is that they can't pick themselves up and the smallest thing can set them off on a horrific downward spiral. It's why it's so dangerous, seemingly happy people can actually feel like they are being crushed inside. Terrible illness, makes no sense and can affect anyone.

 

He could believe that it was a selfless act though. He was ill, so he just didn't understand, or think, what grief it would cause. I don't see how you can't understand that. You're assuming that people who are seemingly depressed, and we assume Gary was, are able to think rationally about things.

 

There's a lack of rational thought, and then there's having an IQ lower than a potato.

Sorry, but I have yet to see any evidence which leads me to believe that a manic depressive has rational thought as bad as an animal or baby. No matter how bad it gets, no one will ever presume that them dying will not cause any grief for loved ones.

The notion that he didn't 'think' about it may be more reasonable, but I'd be astounded if he didn't understand the ramifications on at least some level. I'd be especially astounded if he didn't understand the ramifications of hanging himself where his wife or children could find him hanging there dead.

Unless, of course, you're insinuating that being depressed can make someone believe that their wife or kids would be happy if that person killed him/herself? That may be the case, I don't know for sure.

 

Agreed. They aren't thinking rationally in the sense that they may feel suicide is the only way out but they can still understand peoples emotions etc. They know it will effect people.

 

I think you have to be in that position to understand the thoughts he was having. It's seen as a 'selfish act' but was he ment to keep living to only feel depressed? I think some people have an arrogant or ignorant view on suicide, but to some it's the only way to make things better for them.

People who make claims that somebody has " taking the easy way out" or is a "coward" is just a complete idiot in my opinion. It was his choice to take his own life, he decided his own fate and yes, his family is suffering, but whatever was bothering him, is no longer making him feel the way he was.

 

When you are in a dark moment (which can be triggered by anything, not just a bad event) you don't think rationally. It's not that you're being selfish, it's simply that you cannot see anything else but the panic to reach an end. If you've ever had a moment like this and been lucky enough to snap out of it, it feels like you were a completely different person at that time. It's not usually something you plan, it's just a moment where your judgement is just... not there.

Planned suicide can be seen as cowardly, one that is measured beforehand but I can only see this is a dark thought that took over his thinking because we all know the kind of man Speed was, were he in a right frame of mind he would never do what he did.

 

So, someone killing themselves is a way to avoid a life of depression, or a way to 'make things better' for him/herself? Taking into account that this act ruins the lives of numerous people and lives young children without a parent?

Let me just repeat the definition of 'selfish':

So he's stopped feeling depressed, and it was at the expense of ruining the lives of his wife and two young kids and probably leaving them traumatised, but because he isn't feeling depressed anymore, it's all dandy?

Some people hate the fact that suicidal people are called 'cowards', but imo, what's worse is defending the act like it was some sort of acceptable thing to do, or that the choice of committing suicide was the right choice. It wasn't.

As I said, it's an awful tragedy, and I can't begin to imagine the frame of mind which would cause someone to do this, but by definition it's a selfish act.

 

You should definitely read up about depression and educate yourself before making ill informed comments

More often than not, people commit suicide because they think that they are a burden on others. Depression is a mental disease, it completely warps the way you think.

 

Sorry mate but what Chappaz said is fair enough. It warps the way you think yes but you don't lose the ability to perceive how other people feel about you. My Mam knew she still had people that cared about her yet still attempted to commit suicide, she knew it would destroy a lot of peoples lives but still tried. They do it because they feel it is the only way out, they know the repercussions it will have. Depression makes you think you have no way out of a problem and gets you down etc (obviously simplified) but doesn't send you insane.