There is no real argument here, bit like chalk and cheese... both have different parameters! A legally "invited migrant ..say a doctor? would be earning in excess of say £80 per annum and paying into the system via tax / NI AROUND £50 K IN TAXES!!! NOTE ... Income tax at 40k + .40p + tax on less than 25k = £24k + NI at 10% ??? e= £ 7-8k? all other bills like housing etc would be self funded has wife and 2 kids? say wife works pt so no benefits other child allowance! If the uk has to support any other family then that is a negative point of course illegal straight off the minute they reach the shore they already have cost around ?? £16k [ arbitory figure based on the cost of people employed to stop/ halt/ or have to place them in hotels etc ] then the hotels start on day 2 ! at £6m per day for number here and increasing!
We also need to factor in people actually migrating AWAY from the UK too - plus births and deaths. It won’t be as many as are coming into the UK, but the overall figure of people arriving vs people leaving will be much fewer than some people would have us believe.
Not all legal immigrants are doctors are they, and the sheer number 685,000 pa to use the argument of NF for example is the issue, putting a strain on our infrastructure. To be clear I believe managed immigration is a good thing, I also think we should stop illegal immigration. I just think this government have made a complete mess of both. Also imo it’s going to get worse as climate change bites, and the various wars around the globe displaces more and more people. Therefore the quicker we can sort it out the better. The money you quote per asylum seeker is largely due to not dealing with the ones that arrive quicker, we wouldn’t be paying all the costs of housing them etc whilst they wait to be processed if we processed them quicker. If The money they set aside to set up and run the Rhwanda scheme had instead been used to clear the backlog and deal quicker with new arrivals I believe it would have been much better spent. Also if they were processed quicker it would act as a deterrent because the ones that failed could be dealt with straight away.
And the net migration figure for 2022 is unparalleled. The net migration figures for the last decade are also unparalleled. UK net migration in 2022 revised up to record 745,000 - BBC News What are the BBC having us believe!
Whether you are sympathetic to legal and/or illegal migration or not, its negative effects are felt by all of us. Whether it’s towns and cities becoming totally unrecognisable to what they were in just a few years, congested roads, lack of access to a GP, hospital waiting lists getting ever longer, reduced amount of available housing etc etc Plus the sheer amount of our money and resources it’s taking up The country is broke and this is making it much worse I’m for controlled immigration and being very very selective as to who we take, whether that’s health care professionals or engineers or whatever. If there is need for certain skills then we should import them. I’m also in favour of taking genuine refugees, but economic migrants should be deported immediately with no appeal allowed Does no one realise that taking in 30 year olds from the 4 corners of the world will turn around and bite us in the ass when in a few short years they will be claiming a state pension and other benefit's ?
We need immigration, without it we have an unbalanced society. As an example, why do you think the pension age has risen and is likely to rise again?. We don’t have enough working aged people paying taxes etc to subsidise the amount of over 65’s we are going to have, likewise contributing to the infrastructure and services by the taxes they’ll pay. The example you give of taking in 30 year olds is looking at it from the wrong perspective , they will have paid taxes etc for 40 years, contributing towards yours and my state pension, by the time they are old enough to be eligible to claim their own. Immigration isn’t the problem per se, the problem is uncontrolled immigration on a large scale. It’s like saying all football fans are hooligans, and treating them as such, whereas, we both know, most football fans are ordinary decent people.
Polls say the Far Right will surge in the EU specifically due to uncontrolled migration. Last year 745,000 turn up here and the polls say the left will win our election. We are Lions led by donkeys....and as Blair told us (just as Starmer now) 'things can only get better'. It won't.
They’ve been largely left leaning, so are now changing to the right, we’ve been right leaning, so are now are changing to the left., We’ve both decided a change is what’s needed.
That’s what I eluded too But we need to be picky It would help if all the lazy b*stards claiming benefits when they’re quite fit to work would get off their arses and pay into the system
Massive increases in net migration is not resulting in massive increases in economic activity and increased GDP to raise taxes.
yep not really hard to misunderstand although off spring are a result of a legal immigrant are a addition to the population they are usually within the families income bubble
They may well be within a family income bubble but they arrive with access to education and healthcare rights. At that point the ‘family bubble’ will not have contributed enough to pay for those rights.
Is that what by elections and them polls are saying? seems that what we are seeing is labour have moved to the right and this isnt the labour of corbyn and labour voting hasnt increased that much but what has happened is that tory voters are doing one away from voting tory for not being proper tories and doing the big things tory voters want.
In this country the majority of voters are centre, either centre right or centre left, last election Boris pitched for, and won, many centre left voters, hence for example the red wall Tories. Also many centre left voters were afraid the Labour Party under Corbyn were too left wing so again voted Tory. This time according to the polls many centre right voters are choosing to vote Labour, partly because the Labour Party have moved away from the far left and are positioning themselves much more towards the centre, but equally because the country is in such a mess and the Tory party are also seen by many to be incompetent and the cause of much of the mess. Then Farage steps in and appeals to the right wing of the Tory party, which means they are being squeezed from the left of the party and from the right of the party. Farage is hoping to win enough support to influence a more right wing party, whether that means the Tory party incorporates him back in, or a completely new party I’m not sure, actually I don’t think he’s sure either, nor particularly bothered. Hence the Tory’s don’t know whether to pitch there policies towards the right, or the left, and ending doing neither, a kind of hotch potch mess that upsets all sections of the party.
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What the **** are red wall tories?? Starmer ditching his left wing pledges is starmer putting the part to the right. Theres even morsels about immigration and moving away from woke daft head gender politics now!! Polls are not indicating a **** orf swing to labour their showing a **** orf collapse in tory support from tories. The Tories havent been a party of Tories for any time what is it they have been tough on or taken back control of crime immigration?? their ****e at being even tories. fourteeen years of being ****e tories means real tories are not going to vote or go reform in numbers. labour have had to do little to mop up the ****e and the grey non left wing man in Starmer is perfect for the job giving no target to aim for.
Voters are Tories or Labour, they lend them their vote. Any large party will incorporate many different views, the political speech is “we are a broad church”. The Tory party consists of the more right wingers, right across the political spectrum to the more liberal centre right ones. There is always a tension between which section has control over the agenda, and therefore the policies. From your post I assume by Suggesting the party hasn’t been real Torries you mean they haven’t been right wing enough for your liking. What you fail to recognise is the reason they’ve won elections for the last 14 years is because they’ve appealed to the centre ground. In this country because of the nature of our electoral system centre ground political parties more often than not win elections. History shows Too far to the right (Farage) or too far to the left (Corbyn), ain’t going to win elections.
