Off Topic Climate change/ pollution

Many younger snots leave the world long before older men.


The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily mine.

 

There are some interesting studies on renewables by various universities, and they vary in the amount that wind farms will increase surface temperatures, and how the down stream impact on cloud formation will affect other weather patterns. There are also concerns about the amount of land (or sea) needed.

And that's before the environmental consequences of acquiring the raw materials and disposing of the old ones.

Like many issues, there seems to be an optimistic 'we can sort that later' approach.

My issue is that many of the 'solutions' really haven't been comprehensively thought through, and there appears to be no meaningful, coherent strategy to resolve the issues.

There also seems to be an almost total lack of inclusion in any cost balance, of the many, many health and societal benefits that fossil fuels have brought, including the fact that many that are predicted to die, would certainly not even exist were in not for fossil fuels, and that includes other animals and creature beside humans. . The doom mongers talk about potential deaths from doing nothing, but ignore the many deaths that will occur if we follow the current pattern for renewables.

Here's a couple of bits of food for thought. They're from a few years back...

https://scitechdaily.com/wind-farms-cause-more-environmental-impact-than-previously-thought/

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/wind-turbines-churn-air-over-north-sea

This is an interesting picture from that last link..

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They need a lot of energy to produce the goods we've outsourced to them so we can claim to be green and have them sent here on old diesel smokers. Pointless really, because we could reduce the figures by simply changing the factors in the calculation, which is what is actually done in a lot of cases. The carbon offsetting scam where trees are either not planted at all, or double counted even though the bulk don't even get past being saplings, being just one example.

 

And how many people in this country have phones, tablets and laptops made in China? Or clothes produced more cheaply in other countries than they could be here? Until people are willing to pay higher prices for goods made here it will continue.

 

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It's tragic, mate.

 

Nah that's life, here today gone tomorrow, if you lend me fifty quid I'll give you it back next week.


The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily mine. ​

 

Don't be scared. It's going to be a positive and innovative future.

 

It doesn't even mention electric vehicles bringing groceries to your door each morning, or jet travel for foreign holidays.

Some of the younger, energy hungry generation think they invented 'green'.



A young cashier told an older woman that she should bring her grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized, "We didn't have this green thing back in my day." The young clerk said,

"Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations."

She gave him a firm stare and a hard grin and said “Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles, and beer bottles.

The store sent them back to the plant to be washed sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over. They were recycled. Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags, which we reused for numerous things.

We walked upstairs because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building.
We walked to the grocery and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throwaway kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power did dry our clothes back in our day.

Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room.

The TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief, not a screen the size of the state of Montana. In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded-up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades with a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

Back then, people took a bus and kids rode their bikes instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service. We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances.

And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles in space to find the nearest burger joint.

But the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing.” The cashier stood there still and quiet as the old lady found her wallet to pay.

Then lady turned to leave but stepped back and turned toward the cashier. She said “You have a world of knowledge in that little device in your hand. Pity you just use it to gossip, take pictures, and waste time. It would do you good to search a bit of history before you embarrass yourself like this again.

 

Who is scared? Stop coming across as being patronising and condescending.

I do my bit. Haven’t flown for 21 years. Never been involved in making a living working in the extraction of polluting fossil fuels.

 

Cola fired power stations- a totally new innovation- presumably similar to the coke ovens at steel works

 

Ha ha, all those points are true, but I'm calling bullshit on a pensioner saying that as an off the cuff speech to a cashier, then someone managing to note it down word for word. Any elderly woman would be too busy fumbling in her purse for cash, a task left until all the goods had been scanned and holding up the queue for the rest in line.

 

Of course the event never happened.

The points raised speak volumes though, especially as there's plenty more could be added that the youngsters wandering around in sack cloth and ashes could learn from and understand why they are a big part of what they claim is the problem, yet they try to foist it onto others.

It also helps demonstrate that those trying to claim in favour of so called solutions, don't really have a handle on the problems.

It's even more shameful with the wealth of information readily available.

The claim used to be humanity is held back by a lack of information, but we are seeing that the problem is actually different to that.

 

It's like any industry - all have interested parties who are pushing forward their alternatives and which give their interests the greatest income.

Wind power is the most heavily invested in in the west right now. A lot of ex-colleagues are working on floating wind turbines, through BP and Equinor, which don't need anchoring and can go further out in the ocean, where there are fewer fish to impact and further away from land. Wind will probably be producing ca. 20-30% of the UK's electricity in 15 years time, unless something new comes along.

 

I've not heard anyone blaming previous generations for what they/we did back then, but then i can't say it doesnt happen. What's the point and as you say, ppl didn't know better. Focus should be on the future and reducing impact in a positive way. Clearly filling landfills with plastic bags isn't great, so the supermarkets should be made to charge a prohibitive amount for them, or banned. Or paper bags subsidised. There's always a good solution that doesn't antagonise or Blame.

 

It can't do it consistently nor on its own, and production, installation (including transmission) and disposal has it's own environmental impacts.

 

I don't think you've been following things very closely if you've missed the claims of the youth. There's an uneducated Swedish doom goblin whose handlers will feel they wasted their money for one.

There probably is a good solution but little of what you're suggesting meets that in a strategic, holistic way.

 

Ye totally agree, but it will be part of an integrated solution. There's environmental impact of all energy production but should be significantly less than oil/coal etc.

 

You mean Greta Thunberg? Not heard about her for a few years - she caused a security breach by sailing around where i work. I imagine she was used to push countries into agreeing to net zero pledges and now has gone rogue. I don't follow anyone who antagonises old ppl about what they did in the past, just suggesting better solutions for the future. What's done is done and can't go back. The UK being able to support itself independently for energy needs in a way that is least detrimental to the local environment is a good aim.