Hang on a bit. I came on this thread hoping to have a perfectly sensible discussion about racism and what do I get?? Nick Clegg!!! Leave it AHRT!
I saw some interview live with John Barnes today and got to be honest, I thought what a load of bull imo. I think if you are supporting black players by means of reciting history or a personal theory of the past 200-300 years that is not going to help your cause.
It was hard to watch, Pat. Nick Clegg has no idea what he is talking about and just muddies the waters with his ill-timed and ill-judged comments. The crowd were cringing at his false platitudes and empty promises. I do not see any reason for celebrating the fact that non-whites earn more within local government than their white colleagues. That is a sign of institutionalised racism - towards whites. The equal-opps bill is stacked against the white applicant - the exact opposite of what it should be achieving. Equality to one and all, I say.
That's interesting, I thought salaries did apply to all irregardless of race depending on the grade and salary scale of the post and just wonder if you've got any specific evidence of this eg job title and name of local authority so I can follow it up? I've heard of women getting less pay than men but not a pay division on ethnicity. I only saw bits of his speech on tv and didn't see the crowd grimace. Perhaps Chris Powell would be better placed to state the case for more black managers but I was interested to learn about the barriers black entrepeneurs face from banks and their reluctance in lending. Surely encouraging small businesses and helping all communities to set them up is a way of tackling high unemployment and many people need a helping hand to get their businesses started.
Pat, you seem to suffer from a chronic case of selective hearing/reading. You cannot tell me that you are unaware of the difference in pay between ethnic and white workers within the public sector, surely? A black man has a better chance of a promotion within a London council than his white colleague. This is not always because he is better at the job, but because his ethnicity suits the quotas ordained by the Equal Opp's Bill. One of the reasons why London councils perform so badly is because their workforces are not made up of the optimum candidates. They are a mish-mash made up of pre-selected ratios. Why should any business be forced to take on such an absurd bill as this?
Yes I must have, I've worked in councils and the voluntary sector before and have always had white managers, still I'd be interested in your specific evidence on the differential pay scales. I always thought the purpose of the Equal Opps bill and legislation is to make organisations more diverse and to reflect the communities they serve, also gender and age but agree it isn't always being applied in the ways it should. There are some London local authorities which peform very well, Greenwich being one of them.
Not quite sure how there can be a difference in pay scales in the public sector due to race. Surely the pay scales are already set, dependent on which band you are in for your job role. The only differences I can see would be length of service, some longer serving members may have been on a previously higher banding or unless bands have been red circle. Therefore the only way it can be separated on race, is if one particular ethnicity has the higher paid senior jobs.
Ponders says that minorities are chosen for promotion and higher paid jobs hence the higher wage due to their background and not ability. He then made this sound like it was unequal pay for similar jobs. I guess I will be told I'm wrong.
Within some councils, successful applicants from a non-white background can expect to earn an added 'premium'. This means that a white person earns less for the same job - because they have white skin. Is this right in any way? Is it right that a predetermined amount of vacancies have to be filled by ethnic applicants? My own experience is garnered from Haringey, Enfield and Waltham Forest.
Ponders - Sorry I'm not aware of this, what is this added 'premium'? How does that fit within the pay scale that local authorities have? who authorises it (signs it off)? I could possibly believe this in the private sector but not the public sector where I assume pay scales have to be a lot more transparent in local authority?
I don't think this exists either. I've heard of performance related pay but that doesn't relate to a person's ethnicity, age or gender. I think PEA is confusing it with the pupil premium after Nick Clegg's speech yesterday, afterall that's one of his hobby horses. Still if there's evidence of it let's see it, as for quotas I thought they only applied if there's some special dispensation under the E Opps legislation and then only in a limited number of cases.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget to quote your source as well. I am following it all up with the local authorities concerned so it has to be accurate.
