….. that you, our loyal supporters, can all be proud of.’ That’s one of the things that KLD said in the statement when Mowbray departed and it echoes what Speakman, at least, has said before. What do you think is the club’s vision of what that identity looks like and what would you like it to be? The way we’ve set up and played this season is vastly different to last year and was clearly implemented by design. It’s obviously been much slower paced but also more controlled and possession based. I’d assume/imagine the motivation for the change was with our poor home form of last season in mind and the idea that exercising more positional dominance and control of possession will give us a better chance of breaking sides down and see us being caught out defensively less often. It probably hasn’t worked out as well as they may have hoped. So is it this season’s approach that embodies the club’s ultimate vision (and one of the reasons Mowbray was peddled is because he didn’t implement it well enough) and Beale is here to fine tune it or is last season’s approach closer to what they want (and Mowbray was partly let go for diverging from it) and Beale is here to speed up our play and be a bit more direct again? I personally think something more akin to last season’s relatively high octane, bombastic and more direct approach is a better fit for our fanbase. Our crowd is/can be a massive asset if utilised correctly and we’re far more responsive to that type of football rather than a slower paced possession based game. A high press is part of that I would say. I understand that Beale tends not to favour a high press but equally I’ve seen him talk about adapting his own approach dependant upon the make up of the fanbase so this may be something he may revise in time if he believes it can be done effectively.
If you look into our stats this season for most of the important metrics that you’d recognise with controlling games we’re up there with Ipswich and Leicester. We were underperforming under Mowbray imo and teams started to recognise that the best way to play against us was to allow us to keep the ball and hit us on the counter or set pieces. We became predictable, naive, the players knew their place in the Xl was safe whether they performed or not and for me we’ve became that team of young lads who play decent football but don’t really have that aggression about us. If we lost it’s just oh well onto the next. Winners are ruthless and the best managers in world football don’t just ignore issues that are blatant to see. You see it with the fans sometimes when we continually concede goals or miss chances they don’t want to point the finger at the culprits because we’ve a team of players that are likeable but being likeable doesn’t win trophies. Beale has a very good foundation in a group of talented players who play good football but now we need to add that aggression, we need to add something else to our game to mix it up if we have to so teams can’t just sit with 10 men behind the ball and let us pass around in the final third without really threatening - something he should be used to whilst managing Rangers. In terms of what I’d do myself in the short term I’d be getting Seelt and Pembele into the defence alongside Hume and Ballard. Neil and Bellingham in the middle game in game out, Aouchiche as the 10 then Rusyn as the 9. Ba/Mayenda/Bennette all worthy of a shot at RW if Roberts can’t do something to show he deserves his place. He’s not a nailed on starter for me. Obviously different story with Clarke.
Identity is a big thing in sporting teams and clubs across the world. It has crept into football in this country more and more and more over the last 4 or 5 years in my opinion. At least it is talked about openly. A playing identity is one part of the language used, but there is a holistic meaning around identity. Southgate talks about it all the time when interviewed. He has spent so much time creating an England identity, which is to an extent summarised by 'when you wear this shirt you can create memories that last forever'. Listen to his players talk about the togetherness and belief they have, they usually say it is better than at club level. Southgate is a student of the psychology of sport and this is where identity comes from. Maybe the best example of identity in sport are the All Blacks. The haka is all about identity. Ancestors, present and legacy. In my own coaching over the last few years I have been part of teams talking about a coaching team identity. What does it mean to us? How do we want our players to think about us? How do we judge and challenge each other? What are your personal identity traits etc. I am the grandad of the coaching scene these days, and it feels a bit forced from me at times, but I also see the real value in it. It defeinitely creates a clarity that means we are all aiming for the same outcomes and in the same way. My own sense of what KLD means is something more than a particular style of play. Unless you are Man City or Liverpool you cant really have a single style in this country. I think he means a manner of performance which is about personal commitment, collective direction of travel and a sense of one big team, from fans to players, all on one page. We can see evidence throughout the academy alignment on values and characterists. It is why youngsters slot in to first team training. Dare I suggest it is why some overseas players take longer to earn their place in the side. They have to learn about our identity. Beale I think hinted at it, and it is a repeat of what Mowbray said. This team, for us fans, must work hard first. Graft is everything. Then quality can shine. I think our identity as a community is one of hard work, togetherness, and enjoying being with each other. I think that is what the club are trying to create on the pitch, across age groups. That is my sense of what he means by a playing identity - a real team togetherness, based on hard work for each other, that allows the players to enjoy being here and us to enjoy watching them. Within that we can play the dominant football and score champagne goals we have seen before, or the resolute and tactically smart game we saw against Leeds. All are based on graft, teamwork, and enjoyable football.
The problem is that the majority of our fans would sacrifice a long term sustainable plan to get back to the Prem within a season or two. It's like the early/mid nineties all over again.
Feels like we're back on the Gus Bus recently. I'd be proud of a team the moves the ball quickly and attack space. Not saying scrap the patient build up. But we're a one trick pony who has been found out by any team who would be happy with a point. Which is 85% of the league. I think we've become boring. Not instrested in winning possession, I'm interested in scoring goals which has become a mind numbing chore as we struggle to break down relegation threatened sides.
Too much bullshìt office'y type talk for me. Just run the club right, win games, get promoted. Can't be arsed with hyperbole, learning curve, touching base, bring it to the party bollocks.
We currently identify as having no strikers. However, I think that when you take into account the supporters, there's no way we could adopt the strategy some clubs have of successive promotions and relegations for five or six seasons until you've built a team capable of staying up. We have to go up ready to stay up at the first attempt. So we have to attract players one or two seasons away from being ready to step up and thrive in the PL.
A lot said we weren't ready to go up from league one, but here we are pushing for promotion out of the championship again. He who dares wins. Grab every opportunity imo.
It’s a good and interesting post but are you not referring more to general culture (and identity) rather than playing identity which is specifically what KLD mentioned. I do think that is more about style of play (there’s plenty of tactical approaches that are still available within that) and I don’t agree that it’s confined to the likes of Liverpool and Man City. Most clubs, particularly the successful ones, in the higher echelons have a fairly clear and well defined identity. Some, perhaps the less well run ones, will shift identities depending on the managerial appointment but that’s what we’re obviously trying to move away from.
It’s just sensible management and governance regardless of what you call it or what terms you use. This thread wasn’t really intended to be a discussion about the merits of having a playing identity or otherwise. I thought that was a given. I just wondered what identity people thought was the best fit for us.
That’s a great post mate. Nails what we love about good Sunderland sides. I think we need a really strong foundation to build on if we get promoted. Who’s to say these players aren’t that foundation though? A lot of them will be improving with every game.
I don't think 'an identity' means a specific tactic at all ... ... more likely a collection of young ambitious players who want to play football on the ground and as a team who support each other.
I've been drinking (a lot of Remy Martin XO), but I can't understand the reason for this thread n.b. this took me ages to type n.b. again . . . . I've wasted my time typing this, haven't I !
Unfortunately you have to now because of how much money is in the game. Anyone thinking the longer we spend in the championship means we’re more prepared for the prem is dreaming.
Players like Patterson, Hume, Ballard, Huggins, Cirkin, Ekwah, Neil, Clarke, Jobe, etc keep improving the longer we're here ... ... yes, it's a dream, you're right.
I think a lot of clubs are losing their identity these days whilst wrapped up in bullshìt and money. That's just my opinion. And I'm not saying that's the way we are going. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Sensible management and governance means nothing if it's just talk. Up to now we are doing well by what seems decent management. It doesn't need dressing up in bullshìt.
We’re not ready to go up yet imo. There are too many weaknesses at the moment that top flight sides would easily exploit. On our day we can give strong sides a very good game but improvements are needed. A premier league ready side would have taken Hull apart and not allowed them the chances they had.
