Spot on about Cameron enabling the vote but the biggest villain was May making it as law before we had a chance to try and do something possibly less self destructive when there was never a need for the referendum result to immediately be implemented or indeed at all. The GE call was crazy too. I am an unapologetic labour voter, but I'm an idealist, and I lean much more towards Corbyn's Socialist Labour rather than the current version. Unfortunately my version of labour was corrupted and smeared out of existence and I'm left with an acceptable version that could sell to the majority. Realistically, my little socialist utopia never stood a chance and I'm almost forced into voting for Starmers labour because true socialism doesn't sell. So that's where I stand, cynical, disappointed and still bitter at our lost chance when Corbyn was beaten at the polls by some voters and the entire British media. But I still try to he positive
Reading this and the comments that followed the view from the vast majority of our friends and acquaintances in the Netherlands during the campaign was how can anyone believe the leave lies and misinformation. That simple majority, narrow as it was and more than likely reversed by some distance now, was far to close to take such a monumental decision. The Dutch PM at the time Mark Rutte agreed when I had a chat with him in the Hague. Brexit is and will continue to be national self harm. Requests for lists of the benefits have gone long unanswered. Moving to a closer relationship with the EU should be the priority, joining the customs union and single market a start.
My attitude towards Brexit remains the same, it is nonsensical and it only got across the line because that twat Cameron in his hubris made himself the face of remain and added a lovely anti Cameron protest vote bonus which got Brexit over the line, then quit after losing. However (depending on the logic) I don’t blame all of the people who voted it, politicians are largely a shifty bunch but you SHOULD be able to trust them enough not to have to wonder if they are pointing a loaded gun at the country’s head. The biggest reason Brexit will fail long term is that the Brexiteers never extended their hand to the remainers and tried to bring them onside in anyway, it was all about total victory, the hardest Brexit possible whilst throwing ‘L’ signs at the other side, all the while achieving literally nothing that improves our country in anyway. Whether or not we end up back in the EU, I am almost certain we will be back in the single market in a couple of decades, only we will be a rule taker and subservient to the will of the EU with no say, all that Brexit managed to achieve was to cost the country a **** load of money and a huge chunk of our international standing which we will only partially recover. Well, other than to fill the pockets of some pound shorting hedge funds (better described as traitors). Because they didn’t work to bring the remainers onside the majority of the country will be decisively pro EU when the core vote of Brexit has passed on, upcoming voters are massively pro European and their position has hardened over time.
Yeah I’d agree with this, but also add, had we voted to remain, the so called gloating would have carried on by them to the leavers, such is the poor attitude and school playground politics wee have. And that many who pay close attention to, also live by. It’s maybe why I don’t really take politics too seriously, and definitely don’t trust anyone who is involved in Politics. Weirdly I trust Starmer about as much as I trust Boris, and think when Labour get in, I’m not sure many people will like him either. Just a hunch, always looks a little smug and shifty for my liking.
Odd take, those who wanted to remain were/are more transfixed with reversing or delegitimising the vote than coming up with a suitable brexit plan.
I mean its not odd when it is reality is it? Brexiteers have 100% had their own way and this is what they have chosen to do with it. It was never the responsibility of Remainers to come up with a suitable Brexit plan, its not as if Brexiteers have ever attempted to offer an olive branch or listen to the concerns of the other side and where Remainers did engage by trying to suggest areas where we might not want to diverge they were told to **** off in no uncertain terms. Right now is the Brexiteers chance to make this stick, if they dont figure it out now then they will lose it in the long term. Onus is on them to provide the goods. If it fails they will have no one to blame but themselves, they have been firmly in control now for at least 5 years.
There never was a suitable Brexit plan. That those supporting Brexit were arguing that the impossible could be done (retain all the benefits with none of the obligations) was precisely why many argued against Brexit in the first place. It's not up to those who pointed out reality to somehow make the impossible possible.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d9jqx/israel-gaza-leak-displacement-nakba?utm_source=reddit.com Forcing two million people out of their lands, into a tent city in a literal desert. Genocidal. But I'm sure they'll be PEACEFUL about it.
It’s done now, and time to move on, but idiocy is idiocy and Brexit is a classic example of idiocy in action. No ifs, no buts, own the ****ing mess.
See this is part of the brexit issue for me. Actually maybe part of the issue of Politics also… We are in the situation we are in, and working together to fix it will largely provide a far better outcome. Your view is very one sided considering the nuances involved. Also, to me this is a very left view from you, id almost go as far and say a very unionised view, and one which is **** you all I’m not interested, apart from complaining and sniping about it for years afterwards. If people learn to work more together, they may realise more can be achieved, and that considering all sides of a situation are important, to gain an understanding not from our own vantage point. I am sure during the negotiations had politicians worked together better then, we have got a better deal, instead of point scoring, complaining, and sniping etc. I’m sure also you’ll likely come back with something sarcastic, instead of working together, hey maybe me and you could even solve some of the issues
We’re all in it together. But some of us are more in it than others, and the bloke who originally said that has his trotters up in clover iirc
Are we seriously rerunning the Brexit debate? Brexit's happened. It's in the past. We left the EU. There is literally nothing we can change about that. I'm in the tribe you still label as 'Remainers'. Odd to label me for so long over one topic but let's run with it. So I'm now asking (as it has been implied by several posters that this is possible) what can I do practically as a 'Remainer' to make Britain, in the aftermath of Brexit, better? Vin
Not at all, rejoining the customs union and single market, realigning standards stopping, diversification and returning to freedom of movement have been mine and many other remain voters solutions to the national self harm the hard brexit has done.
So what is a suitable Brexit plan? Where are all the trade deals that were going to be done as soon as we left the EU? What happened to the promises on immigration? Why should those wanting to remain come up with impossible solutions to the brexit negotiated by Johnson that he was reneging on before the ink was dry?
Re Brexit, we are where we are. Didn't vote for it, didn't want it. I have stopped bleating about it as we now have to make the best out of a bad (self inflicted) situation. The past is the past, learn from it and move on. Doing that doesn't make you a leaver all of a sudden, but helps get this country back on its feet. In the words of Chumbawamba, I get knocked down, I get up again.
Posted without comment (though this is excellent) I thought you would be interested in this story from The Times: You don’t need to share your views on Gaza.
Waiting for the great leap forward? Accepting brexit as it stands isn't an option for me and others who want closer ties to the EU not diversification.
