Off Topic Politics Thread

https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/
Module: Core UK decision-making and political governance.
It's on now, Dominic T. C. Cummings, Lee Cain, his ex-communications chief, Martin Reynolds AKA “Party Marty” and others with stories to tell will appear.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...reaches-week-of-potentially-damning-testimony

 

It`s from the Mail. So what if WhatsApp messages are deleted from her phone - her relevant communications regarding COVID will have been made through more conventional means. I`m reasonably satisfied as to how the pandemic was handled in Scotland.

 

You're a joke mate. You have no enthusiasm to reply to people because you routinely get made to look like a complete plonker whenever you do.

 

My point was more the constant Tory bashing that goes on here, and the deliberate non mentioning of things like this, doesnt make this so much of a Politics forum as an echo chamber. It doesnt help people make balanced view either, in that generally people from the left can appear slightly derranged purely by the lack of balance.

And to your point, would you be saying the same about the Boris Partygate stuff, so what if they had been deleted from phones?

In my view, it is entirely relevant. How do you know there werent messages deleted that would change your view on how the pandemic was handled, or you just planing that trust in blind faith? Fine if you do btw, im not criticising - like I say, wasnt the meaning of my post.

And so what of the Mail, I get it is a ****ty rag, but it may be true - hence my opening line saying "I wonder if this is true".

 

Good points well made. Maybe I`m wrong, but I think Sturgeon is smart enough not to post damaging off the cuff stuff on WhatsApp that could easily be shared and leaked. The Tories have a plethora of incriminating partygate correspondence from a variety of sources, such as e-mail. They seem to have been arrogant and stupid enough to think they could spout anything without any consequence - a mindset displayed by their leader.

 

Thanks, and I dont disagree.

I mean the WhatsApp stuff for the Tories is largely irrelevant in the list of **** stuff they have done, so is hardly surprising.

And I agree about Sturgeon, in so much as I never really warmed to her, never trusted her. Maybe if I were Scottish or lived there, maybe I would have, but I still didnt ever believe she was as squeaky clean as she made out. For me, she tried to be the Scottish Merkel, and was no where near that standard, which for me is a standard many in Westminster could try to emulate (that said, I dont know much about German politics, and maybe she was as bad as most).

 

What you think, if you do, means nothing. Do you sit in the Northam?

 

I have always felt that Boris was going to come out of any Covid enquiry extremely poorly to the extent that I can still see him facing serious criminal charges once the proceedings have reached their conclusion. The issue of managing by Whatsapp messages does not do anyone any favours and I am not sure it is fair to compare the way Nicola Sturgeon managed the pandemic with the way Johnson did merely by the fact they had post deleted messages posted on this platform. The impression in England was that NS always seemed to be one jump ahead of England and that she used this to belittle Johnson whenever possible. I find it surprising that she is coming under criticism north of the border because most people in England acknowledge that she generally managed the pandemic well and, when she did make errors, she owned up to it.

Regardless of your politics, I think that most people who concur that Nicola Stugeon was far more capable of being a politician than Boris and, perhaps, was at one point the most capable progressive political leader in Western Europe. Given Sturgeon's background as a lawyer, I would be hugely surprised if she left a fingerprint that might compromise her in future when it came to the management of the pandemic. My gut instinct is that any enquiry in Scotland will ultimately end up concluding that there was little more NS could do in the circumstances. By contrast, I am of the opinion that Boris has not yet hit the bottom. It will be revealing if the English enquiry concludes that things were managed better on Scotland - this was certainly the impression most people had during the pandemic. It always felt to me that Mark Drakeford was always trying to hang on to Sturgeon's coat tails during the pandemic but was never canny or competitent enough to come out of the pandemic with Sturgeon's kudo. Her subsequent resignation and the on-going police investigation baffles me and I am far from convinced that there will ultimately be something that will diminish stock. By contrast, the Covid enquiry will finish Johnson off as a career politician.

 

A snippet from the pandemic hearing. Going to be an interesting week.

 

You are so naive and your world view is so incredibly detached from reality that I don’t know where to begin. Israel have been striving for peace for decades; but they have been brutally attacked.
They weren’t the ones that butchered over 1000 innocent civilians.

You contradicted yourself in your own post; Israel have overwhelming fire power - and look how they have been using it. TRYING to find a peaceful solution. If you gave Hamas the firepower of Israel, they would instantly wipe out every Jew.

Make no mistake this is a fight to the death; I don’t think you seem to realise this. Hamas want to eradicate the Jews. Their stated goal is erasing Israel from the map. Israel’s stated goal is a PEACEFUL homeland.

Every time you post you act as if you know much more than anyone else; so what is your solution?

What should Israel do?

Personally I hope they absolutely obliterate Hamas.

 

How about a change? I feel like switching sides for a bit.

Recently, in the office I work in, the conversation turned to Brexit and we all agreed it has been a disaster and we were all misled. Fine. Now, I then said the big issue for me is that people's legitimate worries about immigration are often simplified into "that's racist" and "people don't understand how much immigration helps them". People looked at me like I was crazy. That IS the issue they said. I said that's exactly the problem, you are simplifying all people down into wealth stats and not looking at people's lives. I then had someone literally laugh at me and say it was where people don't experience multicultural societies that people voted Brexit.

I shut up then. It felt hostile. So I went away and looked up the stats. It is actually fascinating to look at the lie we lefties have built up about immigration and multiculturalism and the Brexit vote.

1. Clearly most people live in cities and therefore most of the Brexit vote came from cities. The "sleepy village myth" is a total lie

2. Southampton and Coventry have the largest levels of people born outside the UK in England. Both choose to leave. Those levels are around 25%.

3. Edinburgh was the lowest level of leave voting in a big city. This is a city which is rising in multiculturalism and has now hit a massive... 8 percent.

Let's come back to Southampton. Southampton's population changed dramatically in the ten years before Brexit. Not due to a nation that looks different, so not a racial change. Southampton became 10% Polish very rapidly. Shops changed. Housing got a little tougher. It got cheaper to find a builder, plumber or electrician - and consequently harder to get a decent pay packet if you were already here in those jobs. I don't think Southampton would have voted Brexit before that influx of people. I also think there is a cosy elite belief that people in nice middle class neighbourhoods know best about this stuff.

Anyway, joining my right wing friends on this one - if anyone fancies the debate.

 

Probably the most sensible thing you’ve ever posted

 

Shut up!

 

Agree with you on Sturgeon. Most overrated politician in the UK over the last few decades.

She has had carte blanche to do what she likes in Scotland and has overseen major declines in educational standards and the worst drug problems in the UK despite both being devolved matters. SNP became too much of a one matter party and neglected to actually run the country for the people. Problem for Scottish people is that one matter is so high on their priority list that they accept the major flaws of the SNP.

 

McErkel?

 

More political than football related I think.

They had to do something if they wanted to keep playing in Europe, Uefa must have had a word in their ear.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-67277186