I disagree Col, I think it is helpfull for criticism of Israel to be loud and official - we do not want them thinking they have unconditional support from the West to do whatever they want. The way they have reacted to the Hamas attacks is as unproportional as if the UK had reacted to IRA attacks in England by bombing the entire Catholic area of Belfast - how would the World have reacted in that scenario ? The Israelis cannot be led into thinking that the more Palestinians they kill the more it increases their security.
A proportionate response would have been the army raping a random number of civilians and stabbing a few babies. If the ra had killed 9000 Brits in a day then it probably wouldn’t have looked promising for half of Belfast.
Do you have any evidence that babies were stabbed or of rape or is this another part of Netanyahu's propaganda war along with his claim of babies having been beheaded - which Israel was forced to recant later ?
I didn't expect you to agree. Maybe Israel should have just captured a couple of hundred Palestinians and randomly killed, tortured and raped them, especially the children. Presumably you'd have been ok with that, as it would be proportionate?
The horrific methods of killing civilians have been confirmed by some reliable enough sources for me. Some Corbynite cranks holding out still but I didn’t think that was even still up for debate.
I don't think that any nation has a monopoly on the ability to lie Col. Agreeing to differ on this point of what is exactly proportional retaliation - in what way do you think Israel is increasing its security, or the safety of its citizens, by razing the whole of the Gaza Strip to the ground and creating millions more refugees (as if the Palestinians didn't have enough of those already).
After giving back land for peace and the Hamas invasion and (very documented) acts within its borders, Israel is done with trying to negotiate with Hamas. With Hamas using their citizens as shields, the only way to figure out who is who in Gaza is to shoot anybody that shoots at you. A ground offensive is inevitable to achieve the Israeli military goals. As Israel moves through the Gaza, they will systematically destroy any underground construction to eliminate the Hamas tunnels funded by the humanitarian aid Hamas hijacked from their citizens. A withdrawal from Gaza will only be after Israel is content that they have at least set back Hamas efforts against them for a decade.
Speech in full below. I thought it was a very good speech. It's probably come about since Israel has basically murdered 35 UN workers in collateral damage The situation in the Middle East is growing more dire by the hour. The war in Gaza is raging and risks spiralling throughout the region. Divisions are splintering societies. Tensions threaten to boil over. At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles -- starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians. I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel. Nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians – or the launching of rockets against civilian targets. All hostages must be treated humanely and released immediately and without conditions. I respectfully note the presence among us of members of their families. Excellencies, It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum. The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation. They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing. But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people. Excellencies, Even war has rules. We must demand that all parties uphold and respect their obligations under international humanitarian law; take constant care in the conduct of military operations to spare civilians; and respect and protect hospitals and respect the inviolability of UN facilities which today are sheltering more than 600,000 Palestinians. The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces, the level of civilian casualties, and the wholesale destruction of neighborhoods continue to mount and are deeply alarming. I mourn and honour the dozens of UN colleagues working for UNRWA – sadly, at least 35 and counting – killed in the bombardment of Gaza over the last two weeks. I owe to their families my condemnation of these and many other similar killings. The protection of civilians is paramount in any armed conflict. Protecting civilians can never mean using them as human shields. Protecting civilians does not mean ordering more than one million people to evacuate to the south, where there is no shelter, no food, no water, no medicine and no fuel, and then continuing to bomb the south itself. I am deeply concerned about the clear violations of international humanitarian law that we are witnessing in Gaza. Let me be clear: No party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law. Excellencies, Thankfully, some humanitarian relief is finally getting into Gaza. But it is a drop of aid in an ocean of need. In addition, our UN fuel supplies in Gaza will run out in a matter of days. That would be another disaster. Without fuel, aid cannot be delivered, hospitals will not have power, and drinking water cannot be purified or even pumped. The people of Gaza need continuous aid delivery at a level that corresponds to the enormous needs. That aid must be delivered without restrictions. I salute our UN colleagues and humanitarian partners in Gaza working under hazardous conditions and risking their lives to provide aid to those in need. They are an inspiration. To ease epic suffering, make the delivery of aid easier and safer, and facilitate the release of hostages, I reiterate my appeal for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. Excellencies, Even in this moment of grave and immediate danger, we cannot lose sight of the only realistic foundation for a true peace and stability: a two-State solution. Israelis must see their legitimate needs for security materialized, and Palestinians must see their legitimate aspirations for an independent State realized, in line with United Nations resolutions, international law and previous agreements. Finally, we must be clear on the principle of upholding human dignity. Polarization and dehumanization are being fueled by a tsunami of disinformation. We must stand up to the forces of antisemitism, anti-Muslim bigotry and all forms of hate.
I'm other news the hostage has good words to say about some of her ordeal (not all of it) Interesting how the massacre even began, was it a different arm? Did it get out of controlled https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67204479
Along with the Israeli opening of a ground offensive the Israelis have cut off nearly all internet connections in the Gaza Strip - soon there will be no information coming out other than what the Netanyahu government wants us to know.
There’s always someone with a bit of 4G to film a recently injured child in the same pyjamas and covered in ketchup as the last half a dozen pics. It’ll be fine.
