https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2010/06/was-israel-a-mistake/186093/ Written by an understanding Jew.
Totally agreed but a two state solution won’t work. It will for the Palestinians but not the Israelis.
Nice essay. The establishment of the Jewish State, where Jews could live free of persecution, discrimination and death experienced everyplace else in the world, was the goal of the Zionists. There was always a desire to return to the homeland, even before Zionism became a thing. Jews migrated to the area for hundreds of years before WW II. They were small numbers each year but show there was always a desire to return to Jerusalem and the area in general. Immediately after declaring Statehood , the Arab countries around them attacked Israel. Peace was negotiated, usually with the expansion of Israeli controlled area; Arab neighbors bent on "driving the Jews in to the sea" again attacked; peace was negotiated with larger buffer areas and we have repeated the cycle until today. Even after giving back the part of the Golan Heights in the North, the West Bank and Gaza, the attacks continued. I think we have crossed a line in the sand (metaphorically speaking) which will have a far different outcome. The attacker is different from the past. Hamas truly doesn't care about Palestinians. Their leaders are on record saying that Muslims who die "defending the faith" get the fast track to the good afterlife and they are perfectly willing to sacrifice the Gaza residents. They imbed their military and arms within civilian population areas and don't wear military uniforms, making them indistinguishable from their population. They invite the carnage. They attack Israel and Israel retaliates, causing more death and destruction to Gaza residents. There will be no negotiation with Hamas or any other entity that is going to fight to the last drop of their people's blood. Since Hamas claims to speak for the Palestinians, there can't be a negotiated peace this time. I can see an outcome in Gaza that will define the region for a generation. Egypt wants the Palestinians to "hold onto their land", denying them entry, without giving them the tools to oust Hamas, which has brought the Gaza residents nothing but misery. To my knowledge, no past aid given to relieve the suffering of the Gaza residents has found its way to the residents of Gaza. It has been taken by Hamas and poured into their weapons fund, not infrastructure. If the Palestinians truly wanted to pursue peace, they would copy Israel's reclamation of the desert into villages, cities and towns capable of providing a decent life for the residents. Then they would appreciate that losing their nice things would be a reason to stop the violence.
All seen from one perspective….. There is another perspective too and one that has plenty of facts to back that up as well There are no angels here. Both sides are guilty of horrendous acts
Just a few comments on the inaccuracies of your text: You say that Jews had migrated to the area for hundreds of years - false. There was an increase only after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the Balfour declaration - at the time of the declaration the Jewish part of the population of Palestine was around 4% and nearly all of local ie. non European origins. Most Jews were against the idea of Zionism and the creation of a Jewish state until around the 1930s. You say that they experienced risk of death everywhere else which doesn't explain why there are more Jews in the USA now than in Israel (even after World War 2 and the rise of Zionism the USA remained their country of choice). You speak of ''homeland'' and ''a return'' as if they had a prior claim to that land after having become Europeans over centuries as if the separating 2,000 years hadn't happened - and on the basis of what ? Because they say that God gave it to them ? On that basis the ancient Britons can lay a claim to England and kick the locals out.
The same reply as above. This is all from one perspective. There will not be peace until there is recognition and acceptance of both cultures.
In other words finding a way of going back to the past because for the much bigger part of history Jews were more accepted in Islamic societies than in Christendom.
I don't think Biden's trip to Israel should be written off just yet. Yes, he would have wanted to meet Arab leaders, but he's there primarily to speak to Israelis. The part of his speech today where he spoke to those who've lost loved ones - something he knows a lot about - was quite beautiful. He also talked of the mistakes America made in its response to 9/11 and cautioned Israel not to make the same mistakes. If he can somehow persuade Israel not to act in its understandable craving for revenge and rather to seek to rescue its hostages and eradicate the Hamas perpetrators of atrocity without - so far as is possible - punishing innocent Palestinians as is happening now, his trip will have been a success.
seems the bbc think it might have been a Palestinian rocket after all Gaza hospital: What video, pictures and other evidence tell us about Al Ahli hospital blast Published 2 hours ago Share Related Topics Israel-Gaza war please log in to view this image IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS By Paul Brown, Joshua Cheetham, Sean Seddon and Daniele Palumbo BBC Verify A deadly blast at the crowded Al-Ahli hospital in Gaza City is feared to have killed hundreds of people. The Hamas-controlled Palestinian authorities in Gaza immediately blamed Israel, claiming it was a deliberate air strike. Israel has denied involvement. Amid the claim and counter-claim, getting to the truth is harder than ever. BBC Verify is trying to unravel what is and isn't known - looking at video footage, still imagery and other evidence, including eyewitness accounts. In addition, a BBC journalist has been to the blast site, where there is limited access. New information is emerging all the time, so we will continue to update this article as we learn more and talk to experts about the evidence. It is also important to note that as well as the physical fighting, this conflict is playing out as an information war. This is not the first time authorities in Israel and Gaza have given completely different accounts of an explosion. We are also looking at their various claims and statements. The blast The explosion at the hospital happened at around 19:00 local time on Tuesday. A 20-second video which circulated on social media purporting to show the blast was the first significant piece of visual evidence to emerge of the incident. In it, you can hear the whistling sound of an incoming projectile, followed by an explosion and a huge fire. Live footage from the Al-Jazeera media network aired at 18:59 local time showed a bright light rising in the skies above Gaza. Some commentators have suggested it is from a rocket which appears to explode or disintegrate. From the footage, a flash is seen far away, followed by a much larger explosion closer to the camera that we've geolocated. Other footage which surfaced on social media channels showed what appears to be the same blast from different angles and distances. Media caption, Watch: Chaos in Gaza City after hospital hit We consulted experts to establish whether the available evidence - including the size of the explosion and the sounds heard beforehand - could be used to determine its cause. So far the findings are inconclusive. BBC Verify has shown the evidence to a number of weapons experts, some of whom say it is not consistent with what you would expect from a typical Israeli airstrike. J Andres Gannon, an assistant professor at Vanderbilt University, in the US, says the explosion appears to be small, meaning that the heat generated from the impact may have been caused by leftover rocket fuel rather than an explosion from a warhead. Justin Bronk, a senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute (Rusi) in the UK, agrees. While it is difficult to be sure at such an early stage, he says, the evidence looks like the explosion was caused by a failed rocket section hitting the car park and causing a fuel and propellant fire. Mr Gannon says it is not possible to determine from the footage whether the projectile struck its intended target. Several experts we spoke to were not willing to put forward a view on what happened. Visual evidence from the blast site The BBC was able to match details of buildings and the layout of the Al Ahli hospital site with publicly available satellite imagery, to establish the hospital was the scene of the blast. Based on available evidence, it appears the explosion happened in a courtyard which is part of the hospital site. Images of the ground after the blast do not show significant damage to surrounding hospital buildings. What the images do show includes scorch marks and burnt-out cars. please log in to view this image The hospital is owned and run by the Anglican Church. Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George's College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 1,000 displaced people were sheltering in the courtyard when it was hit, and about 600 patients and staff were inside the building. please log in to view this image What BBC reporter found BBC reporter Rushdi Abualouf has been to the the Al Ahli Hospital this morning. Witnesses there report scenes of devastation, and say bodies are still being collected. One man told him that women, children and elderly people were at the hospital when the explosion happened. We are still analysing images and footage of the victims to determine what they can tell us about the blast from the nature of their injuries. Media caption, BBC reporter Rushdi Abualouf at the scene of Gaza hospital blast: "People are still collecting body parts" What we don't know yet One of the most critical pieces of evidence is the nature of the crater left behind by the explosion. The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) say that the absence of a large crater, or blast damage to adjacent buildings, proves that the explosion was not caused by its weapons. You can see one small crater and we're seeing if any of the other marks represent other craters. please log in to view this image Another important part of missing evidence is missile fragments. Projectiles are often identifiable by the wreckage of their shell, and they can be used to determined the projectile's origin. But in this case, we have not seen that evidence. The IDF has released a recording of what it says is an intercepted conversation between two Hamas militants acknowledging the hospital was hit by a projectile fired by Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ). PIJ is the second largest militant group in Gaza, and supported Hamas's 7 October attack on Israel. It is not possible to independently verify this recording. In a statement, PIJ denied any involvement and blamed Israel for the blast.
Hamas wouldn’t have hurt their own people. They’re good guys deep down. All the cranks falling over themselves to be the first to condemn Israel should probably have a little think. Maybe the Jordanians can re-build the embassy.
Jumped in with both feet there eh? Seems pretty clear now that the hospital explosion was caused by a misfiring Islamic Jihad rocket. The crater is far too small to be from the type of missiles Israel uses. The huge fireball was probably rocket fuel. This is an example of what I was saying earlier. We on social media need to dial down the rhetoric, as there's enough hatred out there on both sides without adding to it. The extremists who want to do innocent people harm don't need encouragement from social media etc to confirm their views.
No, you're totally missing the point I was making. When I posted that, I accepted that it was unclear who was responsible. The point was that giving Israel unequivocal support to take whatever measures it sees fit could include supporting such an action. We should back Israel in action against Hamas and to recover its hostages, but such unqualified support is irresponsible. Collective punishment, such as Israel is currently inflicting on Gaza, is a war crime
It's not a case of jumping in with two feet - the explosion appears from this crater to have been a small one, insufficient to kill 500 people. This isn't the first time that rockets have landed in the vicinity of the hospital so this may be an old crater. Anyway, the point is that many people believed that the IDF were responsible because it is consistent with everything else they have inflicted on Gaza so far. Of course it could have been a Hamas rocket which misfired - each side believes what it wants to believe. The same thing happened several times in the Ukraine - Putin jumped in and said that this, or that, explosion was caused by a misfiring Ukrainian missile (and provided so called visual proof), but did anyone believe him ? The fact is that a third of the deaths in Palestine so far have been children and that is fact, not propaganda, which doesn't sound as if israel is targeting only Hamas - they have also used white phosphorous bombs which can only be used to inflict maximum pain and suffering on victims. Judged on what Israel has done so far its goal is to inflict as much fear on the population as possible.
Biden’s Israel Trip Was a Gamble That’s Already Paying Off (yahoo.com) Indeed, the entire speech was extraordinarily well-received. The Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin wrote, “A simply magnificent, gut-wrenching and inspiring Biden speech in Israel. As an American, a Jew, a human being, I could not be more touched.”
