The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 26th September)

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ellandback

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Mar 30, 2011
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Good Morning. It's Tuesday 26th September, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road

Gnonto going nowhere in January

Football journalist Ben Jacobs has stated that Wilfred Gnonto will not be going anywhere in January, and the bad blood between him and Leeds Utd has blown over.

The Italian International was strongly linked with a move to Goodison Park in the Summer, and even agreed personal terms with them, but 49ers Enterprises refused to budge. He handed in a transfer request, and even refused to play as the situated threatened to get out of hand.

A month or so on, and it seems all has been forgiven, and with 353 minutes of game time already under his belt, it's safe to assume that normal service has been resumed. Whether he stays next Summer will depend on which division Leeds are playing in next season, but for now at least, all is quiet on the West Yorkshire front.

“What we’ll have to do is wait and see whether, at the end of the season, there’s a change in Leeds’ position. And that will obviously be circumstantial, so it’s far too early to say because next summer, if Leeds are back in the Premier League, then Wilfred Gnonto may just want to stay.

"The other thing in all of this is obviously whether, at any point going forwards, improved terms that are offered to Gnonto. Sometimes when a player stays at a club, but was about to leave, or wanted to leave anyway, you sort of almost get a peacemaker contract offered. We saw it with Moises Caicedo, even though he eventually left, and that contract really doesn’t mean much.

“Because from the players side, they would obviously try and put a clause in there that still allows them to leave in some capacity. For example, if Leeds didn’t get back up to the Premier League. But if everything goes according to plan, that kind of thing can obviously keep the player happy and on better terms as well.

“So my sense of the situation is that it’s blown over and that Gnonto respects Leeds’ position and that nothing will be sanctioned mid-season. And then obviously, by the summer, it will all simply depend on whether Leeds go up of stay in the Championship. If they stay in the Championship, I think they’ll let Gnonto leave. But if they go back up into the Premier League, he may not want to leave and like I said before, if Everton is still the primary suitor, we also have to understand where they are to.”

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Should Rodon be recalled for South Coast test

Daniel Farke has a selection dilemma ahead of Saturday's game at St Mary's. On loan defender Joe Rodon is available to return after serving a one match ban at the weekend, following his sending off at Hull, but with Liam Cooper now fully fit, will the gaffer opt to change a winning formula, and drop his skipper?

It's a nice problem to have. Leeds have kept four clean sheets in a row, and Farke's squad are playing some of their best football we have seen in several years.

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Special praise for Kamara

Leeds Manager Daniel Farke reserved special praise for new boy Glen Kamara following their demolition of Watford at the weekend.

The young Finn had been frozen out at Ibrox, in an attempt to get him off their books, but with weeks of stalling, it seemed the expected move to LS11 may never happen. Eventually, with just days left until the transfer window slammed shut, the deal was finalised, and the 27yo signed a four year contract.

Given that he had played very little football over the Summer, Farke can be excused for not throwing him in at the deep end. Before the Watford game, Kamara had only seven minutes of game time under his belt (vs Millwall) but gave a great account of himself with his first start of the season. He had 58 touches, and a pass accuracy rate of 92%.

“Excellent,” “I think it was important because he had little pre-season because there was so many rumours and talks with Rangers that he didn’t get much game time, was tough for him.

“Obviously when you come into a new environment and you’ve not played competitive games for such a long period, you need a few weeks in order to be then really prepared. I think he had also a bit of game time for Finland, I think this helped him, you could see him growing over the last two weeks or so in training.

“The last days I got the feeling okay, he looks like now that he’s really prepared and ready because I just wanted to unleash him and he’s really fully fit and fully ready to go and this is what he showed today.

“I think he was excellent in his passing, his positioning against the ball. Obviously not a perfect performance even there were some areas we can improve but if you keep in mind that this was the first competitive game for him for clubs since really long while, you have to say you have to give him lots of praise and I’m pleased that he repaid as much as possible.”

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Goog morning everyone
Must admit i had no expectations on Kamara, i mean if Rangers did not realy want him, why should we, however i have now seen one very solid performance & a few minutes in another, from what i have seen so far , i have been very impressed.
Another which had me on my feet with the 10-15 min he was on was Djed Spence, i was very very impressed, So can someone actually tell me what injury he suffered i guess in training, as it must be bad, as reports on here is, out till December. :(
Nice to actually look forward to match days with excitement, rather than trepidation, all in all i think we can all agree Farke is doing an incredible job so far.
 
Of the players that have left since the end of last season, would any of them get into the current first team? (For arguments sake we’d have to assume they would give 100% effort)

Personally, based purely on ability, I don’t think any of them would.

And if it were possible for the team at the end of last season to play the current team, the one we currently have would win comfortably.

The Farke effect is a big factor in the conclusion that the Championship team is better than the PL team already, and will only get better.

All looking promising imo.
 
Of the players that have left since the end of last season, would any of them get into the current first team? (For arguments sake we’d have to assume they would give 100% effort)

Personally, based purely on ability, I don’t think any of them would.

And if it were possible for the team at the end of last season to play the current team, the one we currently have would win comfortably.

The Farke effect is a big factor in the conclusion that the Championship team is better than the PL team already, and will only get better.

All looking promising imo.
Was thinking about something similar in that how we've completely overhauled the squad in such a short space of time, but then realised we're still playing and very much dependent upon the following;

Meslier
Ayling
Struijk
Cooper
Firpo
Shackleton
Summerville
Gnonto
James
Bamford
Joffy

All of those (except Gnonto) have been with us for at least 2 seasons and most for a lot longer.

Conclusion...the old guard is also the new guard but with a supporting cast who are both fully commited and of better quality.

Darlow - Robles = better (hopefully)
Spence - Kristensen = better.
Rodon - Koch = better...get him signed in Jan if possible.
Byram - Wober = better.
Cresswell - Llorente = better cos he's Leeds.
Kamara - Roca = better
Amepedu - Adams = same/similar but better because Ampedu wants to be here.
Gray - Aaronson = better.
Gruev - Klich = jury still out but klichy needed replacing.
Sinisterra - Anthony = better as he wants to be here and plays like it...sign him up asap.
Piroe - Rodrigo = better as no sulking and sticks the ball in the net for fun.
Georginio - Harrison = better.
Poveda - Nodody = better

Also still to force their way into Farke's plans are;

Dallas
Gyabi
Joseph

Great work over this summer of chaos by Farke, the board and our 2 DOF and maybe Orta's loan clauses on relegation may prove to be highly significant in a positive way after all.
 
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Was thinking about something similar in that how we've completely overhauled the squad in such a short space of time, but then realised we're still playing and very much dependent upon the following;

Meslier
Ayling
Struijk
Cooper
Firpo
Shackleton
Summerville
Gnonto
James
Bamford
Joffy

All of those (except Gnonto) have been with us for at least 2 seasons and most for a lot longer.

Conclusion...the old guard is also the new guard but with a supporting cast who are both fully commited and of better quality.

Darlow - Robles = better (hopefully)
Spence - Kristensen = better.
Rodon - Koch = better...get him signed in Jan if possible.
Byram - Drameh = better.
Cresswell - Llorente = better cos he's Leeds.
Kamara - Roca = better
Amepedu - Adams = same/similar but better because Ampedu wants to be here.
Gray - Aaronson = better.
Gruev - Klich = jury still out but klichy needed replacing.
Sinisterra - Anthony = better as he wants to be here and plays like it...sign him up asap.
Piroe - Rodrigo = better as no sulking and sticks the ball in the net for fun.
Georginio - Harrison = better.
Poveda - Nodody = better

Also still to force their way into Farke's plans are;

Dallas
Gyabi
Joseph

Great work over this summer of chaos by Farke, the board and our 2 DOF and maybe Orta's loan clauses on relegation may prove to be highly significant in a positive way after all.
Agree with all of the above and you forgot Farke vs anyone since Bielsa = a country mile better. Also, the team collective just feels better than it has since the first year back in the Premier League :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
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Agree with all of the above and you forgot Farke vs anyone since Bielsa = a country mile better. Also, the team collective just feels better than it has since the first year back in the Premier League :emoticon-0148-yes:
Whilst I've no desire to find out it would be interesting to know how we'd be fairing without all the loans out ?

My inclination is that Farke would have got a tune out of those useless barstewards, but it wouldn't be half as enjoyable for us fans to watch. The other scenario of course is that they'd cost Farke his job by Xmas which would have been a distinct possibility as well.
 
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For me the time to draw the above conclusions is this time next year in the PL. If we're not in the PL then this season was a failure. If we are in the PL and the nucleus of the squad is the same, let's see how they do. Farke got Norwich up looking great and then relegated again with squads that weren't improved. Not blaming him for that and not p*ssing on anyone's parade. I'm very happy with recent performances... just think some of these assessments are a bit premature
 
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For me the time to draw the above conclusions is this time next year in the PL. If we're not in the PL then this season was a failure. If we are in the PL and the nucleus of the squad is the same, let's see how they do. Farke got Norwich up looking great and then relegated again with squads that weren't improved. Not blaming him for that and not p*ssing on anyone's parade. I'm very happy with recent performances... just think some of these assessments are a bit premature
It's all about perspective Milky. If you ask Eire for example, if we are in the PL this time next year this season will have been a failure.

Me, I honestly don't care which division we are in but am loving the fact that I am really enjoying the footie again for the first time in a couple of years. Watching the Blades get routed by Newcastle on Sunday brought back some unhappy memories and, even worse, I can remember games where we didn't lay a glove on many bang average Premier League teams over 90 minutes and just felt like I had time stolen from me.
 
Was thinking about something similar in that how we've completely overhauled the squad in such a short space of time, but then realised we're still playing and very much dependent upon the following;

Meslier
Ayling
Struijk
Cooper
Firpo
Shackleton
Summerville
Gnonto
James
Bamford
Joffy

All of those (except Gnonto) have been with us for at least 2 seasons and most for a lot longer.

Conclusion...the old guard is also the new guard but with a supporting cast who are both fully commited and of better quality.

Darlow - Robles = better (hopefully)
Spence - Kristensen = better.
Rodon - Koch = better...get him signed in Jan if possible.
Byram - Wober = better.
Cresswell - Llorente = better cos he's Leeds.
Kamara - Roca = better
Amepedu - Adams = same/similar but better because Ampedu wants to be here.
Gray - Aaronson = better.
Gruev - Klich = jury still out but klichy needed replacing.
Sinisterra - Anthony = better as he wants to be here and plays like it...sign him up asap.
Piroe - Rodrigo = better as no sulking and sticks the ball in the net for fun.
Georginio - Harrison = better.
Poveda - Nodody = better

Also still to force their way into Farke's plans are;

Dallas
Gyabi
Joseph

Great work over this summer of chaos by Farke, the board and our 2 DOF and maybe Orta's loan clauses on relegation may prove to be highly significant in a positive way after all.
I have to say, the only thing I am not 100% about on your list is Ampadu and Adams being on a par - if we had to choose one of the two for the same price I genuinely think Ampadu is slightly the better player. Thought Adams was good but think Ampadu edges it technically.
 
I think Farke is fantastic for the group we currently have and how he handled Gnonto was spot on, how he is handling Rutter, superb. Bringing in Byram, making Shackleton look a different player, Poveda too before his injury, that's special. It's why I am not bothered about LB, if Farke wants Firpo, I am sure it's because he will slot straight into what Farke wants the team to do.

Now this isn't a downer against Farke, we do have the best team in the Championship. There is not a single player who I would take from another team in place of our front 4 and make that 6 if you include James and Anthony, I would not replace our CM's either

Bielsa worked wonders with an average bunch of players and transformed them with a style that eventually took it's toll

Farke has the best team in the Championship and he has them playing to their full potential and he has shown he can handle the personalities and bring dressing room harmony back from being toxic in a very short time. Horses for courses, for this group of players, I would not swap Farke for Bielsa either.
 
It's all about perspective Milky. If you ask Eire for example, if we are in the PL this time next year this season will have been a failure.

Me, I honestly don't care which division we are in but am loving the fact that I am really enjoying the footie again for the first time in a couple of years. Watching the Blades get routed by Newcastle on Sunday brought back some unhappy memories and, even worse, I can remember games where we didn't lay a glove on many bang average Premier League teams over 90 minutes and just felt like I had time stolen from me.

For sure each to their own in terms of what defines success and failure... my point really was that if we have the best squad in the league... as many seem to think... and a brilliant manager as many also think... then surely anything other than promotion is underperforming? (Gone for 'underperforming' rather than 'success/failure' <laugh>)
 
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I have to say, the only thing I am not 100% about on your list is Ampadu and Adams being on a par - if we had to choose one of the two for the same price I genuinely think Ampadu is slightly the better player. Thought Adams was good but think Ampadu edges it technically.

I really like Ampadu but what i think people don't always grasp is the importance of athleticism in modern football and the ability to perform relatively simple looking tasks under extreme pressure in a high paced game. Everything is easier in the championship, everybody looks better, they all have more time on the ball. Rodon, Ampadu, Spence - not wanted by their PL clubs. Doesn't mean they can't and won't prove in the future to be decent PL players, just stating the facts.

Adams was an athlete and technically competent if limited in his passing range.
 
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For sure each to their own in terms of what defines success and failure... my point really was that if we have the best squad in the league... as many seem to think... and a brilliant manager as many also think... then surely anything other than promotion is underperforming? (Gone for 'underperforming' rather than 'success/failure' <laugh>)
Anything other than top two is fail for me, saying that, injuries, red cards and battering a team for 90 minutes and a keeper walking away with another mom award can spoil the party. We also gave the rest at least a 5 point head start this season with the unsettled squad and mess of the loan situation.

Bookies have Ipswich as second favourite to go up at evens, we are third at 5/4 - Considering we beat them at their ground I think 5/4 is a good price
 
I really like Ampadu but what i think people don't always grasp is the importance of athleticism in modern football and the ability to perform relatively simple looking tasks under extreme pressure in a high paced game. Everything is easier in the championship, everybody looks better, they all have more time on the ball. Rodon, Ampadu, Spence - not wanted by their PL clubs. Doesn't mean they can't and won't prove in the future to be decent PL players, just stating the facts.

Adams was an athlete and technically competent if limited in his passing range.
Not arguing and think your points are valid and not going to Google here but I think the first time I saw Ampadu was on loan at Sheffield United in our first season back in the Premier League and he caught my eye straight away, looked a little sharper than the rest of their players and most of ours. I said to Ben he looks a player and I would love us to sign him. He played Right Sided Centre Half that day and would have been perfect when we found out we couldn't buy Ben White. I Googled after that and realised he was on loan from Chelsea and assumed it would never happen, hence I was delighted when we got him in the summer and haven't seen anything to change my mind since. Adams was good for us in the Premier League for half a season but I wouldn't swap back if we have the "privilege" of being promoted :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
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