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2023 First Season Sires

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by PNkt, Mar 30, 2023.

  1. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    The first season sires did well at Goodwood, then, with wins in the Group 2 Vintage Stakes (Phoenix of Spain) and the Group 3 Molecomb (Blue Point).
     
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  2. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    Sunday Series day at Haydock Park, yesterday, was another good 'un for the first season sires.

    The Calyx colt, Nellie Laylax, won the valuable £30,000 Nursery and what about the Blue Point filly, Forever Blue. Cor blimey that was some debut (won by 3.75 lengths and the front pair another 12 lengths clear of the 3rd) and this one looks an animal of huge potential, methinks. Curious breeding as well re this Forever Blue. Her sire was, of course, a sprinting star, but her dam won the Lingfield Oaks Trial. Don't know what her trip will ultimately be but as I say Forever Blue looks some filly moving forward...
     
    #42
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  3. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    Update for the end of the month.

    Latest Stats (previous position in brackets):

    1. (1) Blue Point - 30 winners from 76 runners - 1 G3 winner, 2 Listed winners, 1 G3 placed, 1 Listed placed
    2. (2) Soldier's Call - 20 winners from 59 runners - 3 Listed placed
    3. (5) Ten Sovereigns - 16 winners from 49 runners - 2 Listed winners, 1 G2 placed, 2 G3 placed, 1 Listed placed
    4. (3) Inns of Court - 15 winners from 63 runners - 1 Listed placed
    =5. (=6) Calyx - 11 winners from 32 runners - 1 G2 winner, 2 G2 placed
    =5. (4) Too Darn Hot - 11 winners from 39 runners - 3 G3 winners, 1 Listed placed
    =5. (=6) Land Force - 11 winners from 45 runners - 1 Listed placed
    6. (=7) Phoenix of Spain - 9 winners from 20 runners - 1 G2 winner
    7. (8) Invincible Army - 8 winners from 34 runners
    8. (=7) Magna Grecia - 7 winners from 37 runners - 1 Listed winner
    =9. (=9) Study of Man - 3 winner from 12 runners - 1 Listed placed
    =9. (=9) Eqtidaar - 3 winner from 17 runners
    =9. (=9) Advertise - 3 winner from 35 runners - 1 Listed placed
    10. (=9) Masar - 2 winners from 25 runners
    11. (=9) Crystal Ocean - 1 winner from 3 runners
    =12. (=10) Waldgeist - 0 winners from 6 runners
    =12. (=10) Le Brivido - 0 winners from 14 runners

    Still to have a runner:

    Flag of Honour
     
    #43
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  4. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Can't remember how to interpret those stats

    Blue Point, for example. Is that 76 different horses of which 30 of them have won at least one race. If so, of those 30, how many runs and wins and how many runs from those without a win? Is the raw data accessible? I wouldn't mind doing some analyses from it
     
    #44
  5. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    This is what I use. Leading Sires | Thoroughbred Stallion Guide

    You can cut it several ways
     
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  6. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    #46
  7. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    The figures I put up are simply number of individual runners and winners.

    I pull the numbers from Racing Post Statistics. You need to set the filter to European Stats and European First Crop Sires

    https://www.racingpost.com/statistics/european
     
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  8. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    A spurt from the front by Blue Point: every second 2yo winner seems to be by Blue Point.

    IN GB/Ire:-
    Blue Point 35 races won by 27 horses from 72 runners (199 runs)
    Soldiers Call 25 races won by 20 horses from 60 runners (197 runs)
    Inns of Court 17 races won by 13 horses from 53 runners (166 runs)

    in Europe:
    Blue Point 40 by 32 from 81
    Soldiers Call 27 by 22 from 63
    Inns of Court 24 by 19 from 70

    As usual France is a different story
    City Light 10 by 8 from 23
    Blue Point 6 by 5 from 11
    Ten Sovereigns 4 from 3 from 11

    Never fails to astound me how few 2yo races are run in France.

    I do feel these First Season Sires have had it easy as Kodiac (69 runners in GB/Ire this year) is on the wane and Mehmas has had only 42 runners this year. It will be oh so different next year as Mehmas covered something like 240 mares..
     
    #48
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  9. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    Too Darn Hot becomes the first of the 1st Season Sires to bag a G1 winner.
     
    #49
  10. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    Latest Stats (previous position in brackets):

    1. (1) Blue Point - 37 winners from 89 runners (47 wins from 248 runs 18.9%)- 1 G2 winner, 3 Listed winners, 1 G1 placed, 1 G2 placed, 2 Listed placed
    2. (2) Soldier's Call - 21 winners from 63 runners (27 wins from 221 runs 12.1%) - 1 G3 winner, 1 G3 placed, 1 Listed placed
    3. (4) Inns of Court - 19 winners from 70 runners (26 wins from 248 runs 10.5%) - 1 Listed winner, 2 Listed placed
    4. (3) Ten Sovereigns - 18 winners from 56 runners (25 wins from 158 runs 15.35%) - 2 Listed winners, 1 G2 placed, 2 G3 placed, 2 Listed placed
    5. (=5) Too Darn Hot - 14 winners from 43 runners (20 wins from 107 runs 18.7%) - 1 G1 winner, 1 G2 winner, 1 G3 winner, 1 Listed placed
    6. (=5) Land Force - 12 winners from 50 runners (15 wins from 156 runs 9.6%) - 1 Listed placed
    7. (=5) Calyx - 11 winners from 36 runners (15 wins from 99 runners 15.1%) - 1 G2 winner, 2 G2 placed, 1 Listed placed
    8. (6) Phoenix of Spain - 10 winners from 24 runners (13 wins from 69 runs 18.8%) - 1 G2 winner
    =9. (7) Invincible Army - 8 winners from 37 runners (10 wins from 113 runs 8.8%) - 1 Listed winner
    =9. (=9) Advertise - 8 winners from 43 runners (9 wins from 121 runs 7.4%) - 2 Listed placed
    10. (8) Magna Grecia - 7 winners from 40 runners (13 wins from 108 runs 12%) - 1 Listed winner, 1 Listed placed
    =11. (=9) Study of Man - 5 winners from 14 runners (6 wins from 32 runs 18.7%) - 1 Listed placed
    =11. (10) Masar - 5 winners from 29 runners (5 wins from 57 runs 8.8%)
    12. (=9) Eqtidaar - 4 winners from 20 runners (5 wins from 57 runs 8.8%)
    =13. (11) Crystal Ocean - 1 winner from 3 runners (1 win from 5 runs 20%)
    =13. (=12) Waldgeist - 1 winner from 11 runners (1 win from 17 runs 5.8%)
    14. (=12) Le Brivido - 0 winners from 15 runners (0 wins from 34 runs)

    Still to have a runner:

    Flag of Honour
     
    #50

  11. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    Study of Man one to watch, good strike rate from so few runners so far.
     
    #51
  12. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    Very insightful comment. I see that Study Of Man had his first Group winner yesterday - Deepone in the Group 2 Beresford.
     
    #52
  13. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    Latest Stats (previous position in brackets):

    1. (1) Blue Point - 39 winners from 93 runners (52 wins from 283 runs 18.4%)- 1 G1 winner, 1 G2 winner, 2 Listed winners, 1 G1 placed, 1 G2 placed, 2 Listed placed
    2. (2) Soldier's Call - 22 winners from 66 runners (28 wins from 242 runs 11.6%) - 1 G3 winner, 1 G3 placed, 1 Listed placed
    3. (3) Inns of Court - 21 winners from 71 runners (29 wins from 271 runs 10.7%) - 1 Listed winner, 3 Listed placed
    4. (4) Ten Sovereigns - 20 winners from 61 runners (29 wins from 185 runs 15.7%) - 3 Listed winners, 1 G2 placed, 2 G3 placed, 3 Listed placed
    5. (5) Too Darn Hot - 19 winners from 48 runners (27 wins from 134 runs 20.2%) - 1 G1 winner, 1 G2 winner, 2 G3 winners, 1 G3 placed, 1 Listed placed
    =6. (7) Calyx - 14 winners from 38 runners (18 wins from 112 runners 16.1%) - 1 G2 winner, 2 G2 placed, 1 G3 placed, 1 Listed placed
    =6. (6) Land Force - 14 winners from 52 runners (17 wins from 183 runs 9.3%) - 1 Listed placed
    7. (8) Phoenix of Spain - 10 winners from 29 runners (14 wins from 81 runs 17.3%) - 1 G2 winner
    8.(=9) Invincible Army - 10 winners from 41 runners (12 wins from 132 runs 9.1%) - 1 Listed winner
    9. (=9) Advertise - 10 winners from 44 runners (11 wins from 143 runs 7.7%) - 2 Listed placed
    10. (10) Magna Grecia - 8 winners from 46 runners (13 wins from 108 runs 12%) - 1 Listed winner, 1 Listed placed
    11. (=11) Masar - 6 winners from 34 runners (8 wins from 71 runs 11.3%)
    12. (=11) Study of Man - 5 winners from 17 runners (7 wins from 39 runs 17.9%) - 1 G2 winner
    13. (12) Eqtidaar - 4 winners from 20 runners (5 wins from 63 runs 7.9%)
    14. (=13) Crystal Ocean - 1 winner from 4 runners (1 win from 6 runs 16.7%)
    15. (=13) Waldgeist - 1 winner from 16 runners (1 win from 25 runs 4.0%)
    16. (14) Le Brivido - 0 winners from 16 runners (0 wins from 36 runs)


    Still to have a runner:

    Flag of Honour
     
    #53
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  14. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    The wins to runs ratio for Blue Point, Too Darn Hot and Study of Man are noteworthy and with Study of Man the cheaper of the three (£12,500 v £40,000 TDH and €35,000 BP) he definitely looks the value right now.

    Kirsten Rausing (who stands Study of Man) confirmed in a recent interview that Study of Man will be on Alpinista's dance card at some point in the future - she is in foal to Dubawi on a February cover and is likely to go back to him again next year.
     
    #54
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  15. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    Too Darn Hot gets another one on the board today.
     
    #55
  16. stick

    stick Bumper King

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    I still like CALYX. I think he is only 10k and I reckon his will be better at 3.
     
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  17. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    Just had another group winner and the going at this time of year should suit his produce.

    Still concerns me. One why did he only have a ~60% fertility figure? Two, why have only 40% of his live foals run? Three, what was it about him that caused him to run so few races?
    I think 2 and 3 are because the moving parts are not suited to ground that hasn't got the word soft in it. He had few runners on the firm ground of the short dry summer we had.
    Not sure how he did on fertility with his 2nd and 3rd crops.
     
    #57
  18. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    He's definitely got issues - his 93 mares in 2021 resulted in 54 foals. He covered 83 mares in 2022 so we'll see in the next month or so how many foals that produced once the 2023 Returns are out. Those are low books by Coolmore standards - his roster-mate Ten Sovereigns covered 132 and 173 in 2021 and 2022 respectively.
     
    #58
  19. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    Well Calyx seems to have got his issues under control as he covered 202 mares in 2023! That said, he's only got 38 reported foals on the ground this year, though registrations are likely to still come in until the end of the year. His revised number of mares covered in 2022 stands at 66 as they have stripped out those that were double covered by other stallions and who produced foals to those other horses.
     
    #59
  20. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    With the turf season drawing to a close, here's an update.

    Latest Stats (previous position in brackets):

    1. (1) Blue Point - 41 winners from 103 runners (56 wins from 332 runs 16.9%)- 1 G1 winner, 1 G2 winner, 3 Listed winners, 1 G1 placed, 1 G2 placed, 2 Listed placed
    2. (4) Ten Sovereigns - 23 winners from 66 runners (33 wins from 218 runs 15.1%) - 1 G3 winner, 2 Listed winners, 1 G2 placed, 2 G3 placed, 3 Listed placed
    3. (3) Inns of Court - 23 winners from 75 runners (33 wins from 313 runs 10.5%) - 1 Listed winner, 3 Listed placed
    4. (5) Too Darn Hot - 22 winners from 61 runners (30 wins from 170 runs 17.6%) - 1 G1 winner, 1 G2 winner, 2 G3 winners, 1 G3 placed, 2 Listed placed
    5. (2) Soldier's Call - 22 winners from 66 runners (29 wins from 268 runs 10.8%) - 1 G3 winner, 1 G3 placed, 1 Listed placed
    =6. (=6) Calyx - 16 winners from 42 runners (22 wins from 134 runners 16.4%) - 2 G2 winner, 1 G1 placed, 1 G2 placed, 1 Listed placed
    =6. (=6) Land Force - 14 winners from 57 runners (19 wins from 224 runs 8.4%) - 1 Listed placed
    7. (7) Phoenix of Spain - 14 winners from 35 runners (18 wins from 106 runs 16.9%) - 1 G2 winner
    8. (9) Advertise - 14 winners from 48 runners (15 wins from 177 runs 10.2%) - 2 Listed placed
    9. (8) Invincible Army - 12 winners from 48 runners (15 wins from 164 runs 9.1%) - 1 Listed winner
    10. (10) Magna Grecia - 9 winners from 57 runners (15 wins from 161 runs 9.3%) - 1 Listed winner, 1 Listed placed
    =11. (12) Study of Man - 7 winners from 21 runners (9 wins from 53 runs 17.0%) - 1 G2 winner
    =11. (=11) Masar - 7 winners from 42 runners (9 wins from 102 runs 8.8%)
    12. (13) Eqtidaar - 4 winners from 25 runners (6 wins from 75 runs 8.0%)
    13. (=13) Waldgeist - 2 winners from 18 runners (2 win from 34 runs 5.9%)
    =14. (=13) Crystal Ocean - 1 winner from 4 runners (1 win from 7 runs 14.3%)
    =14. (15) Le Brivido - 1 winner from 19 runners (1 wins from 52 runs 1.9%)


    Still to have a runner:

    Flag of Honour
     
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