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Transfer Rumours Arrivals / Departures lounges, Summer 2023.

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Walsh.i.am, Mar 22, 2022.

  1. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    This one shows goals, including headers and assists as well:



    If Fassnacht joins, he will be another over 6' tall and even Stacey, at 5'11", looks to have excellent heading skills. That will help overcome a serious weakness last season. Only another compilation, but Fassnacht looks to have pace, good passing and shooting ability.
     
    #2061
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2023
  2. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    I hope some of those wingers can play DM or CB
     
    #2062
    CitySlicker2010 and Walsh.i.am like this.
  3. Golden Eadie 2

    Golden Eadie 2 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he can teach Hanley how to get headers on target.
     
    #2063
  4. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    We aren’t signing a DM, I think Wagner has said as much as the system doesn’t need one
     
    #2064
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2023
  5. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Wagner has suggested that is the case. The tactics involve McLean (or Núñez) dropping into the back three to fend off attacks and then work the ball out of defence. In that system, the FBs seem to operate as WBs providing outlets down the flanks. I see on wiki that Stacey can also play as a DM, which could be useful if, like Aarons, he's asked to cut in to support the forward midfielder. Complicated, isn't it?
     
    #2065
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2023
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  6. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping Duffy will do that! <laugh>
     
    #2066
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  7. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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  8. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    Oh right silly me , the system probably doesn't need more than 3 cb that can walk again either .

    More wingers please we only have about 8
     
    #2068
  9. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    I took a look at how Wagner used Fassnacht when they were together at Young Boys (21/22 season until March).

    Wagner actually used a 4-4-2 system for most league games in that time, with Fassnacht predominantly playing in the wide right role, occasionally appearing on the left. Wagner used Jordan/Elia as his main strike duo at Young Boys, which based purely on Whoscored playing styles, appears to be a classic "little and large" pairing, of an aerial threat and a speedster. So not quite what we have in the Barnes/Sargent partnership we might be expecting this coming season.

    Under Wagner, Fassnacht had 24 appearances, 10 goals, 3 assists in all competitions, with 9 goals and 3 assists coming in just 14 league appearances. Fassnacht did suffer several injuries that season, a concussion, thigh muscle strain, and ligament injury meant he missed 21 games.

    He also suffered a knee injury last summer, but played every league game of 22/23 after he returned from injury in October. Interestingly, Young Boys used more of a diamond midfield, which he played on the right of, and he still managed 11 goals, 10 assists in 34 appearances.
     
    #2069
  10. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Thanks for that DH. :emoticon-0148-yes:

    We should remember that Young Boys are the dominant team in the Super Ligure, a bit like ManCity really. Even so, his statistics have been consistently impressive.
     
    #2070

  11. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    #2071
  12. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Every summer this impatience occurs - I seem to remember a lot of people being underwhelmed by the signing of Pukki on a free transfer, Rhodes on loan and someone named Buendia from the Spanish lower leagues for £1.5m.

    Now we have Barnes, Stacey, Duffy and Sainz all on free transfers and the perception that no 'reconstruction' of the squad has occurred and time is running out with the season opener less than two weeks away. Sainz was seen as a breakthrough by many, only for him to become this year's injured recruit in his second day of training.

    Now we have the possibly of another wide man, Swiss this time, apparently hovering tantalisingly at CR as someone we might sign for a fee! Eek! Admittedly this occurred after the Gary Gowers article appeared, but it's enough to suggest that overreaction had taken place. Five new players and four promising youngsters wouldn't be miles away from the seven suggested earlier.

    So is this a sudden triumph for Webber as he prepares for his swan song? Well maybe, if we're willing to ignore what he said he was going to do when he arrived. Instead we have four new players all aged between 27 to 33 who are going to inject experience, character and psychological strength into the squad. At 22, Sainz is the only one who might fit the Webber model, well, if he wasn't injured until October. The potential remake occurring has shown glimpses of promise in matches so far, but we won't know anything for certain until the season finally gets underway 12 days from now. Eek! (Mach 2). <yikes>
     
    #2072
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2023
  13. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    IF Omobamidele gets sold we have 2 CB to start the new season .

    Gosh forbid suspenjuries occur & we need to play people out of position like pretty much every season but yeah more wingers
     
    #2073
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  14. Canary Spring

    Canary Spring Well-Known Member

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    I've given up on the Omobamidele rumours. Same with Aarons.

    ps. not all gloom. I'm looking forward to seeing what Fassnacht can do.
     
    #2074
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  15. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    Now you’re getting it, CBs and wingers are required.

    I don’t think we will sign a CB unless someone comes in for Omobamidele and then we may have the funds to bring in 2.
     
    #2075
  16. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    I think we can count Kellen Fisher as one of the main squad signings as well. At 19 he’s old enough to be part of the squad and Wagner has clearly seen enough in him to sanction the sale of Mumba. If Aarons leaves Fisher will be back up to Stacey. Fisher has looked bright when he’s come on, we need to try to bulk him up a bit over the season though.
     
    #2076
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  17. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Honestly, this feels like a load of gripes cobbled together to try and twist the knife into Webber, but I really don't think much of it stands up to scrutiny. Particularly when it's abundantly clear that recruitment isn't complete, and we're looking at the squad for next season as if Omobamidele, Rashica, Aarons are already gone, without factoring in that they'll either be replaced, or stay and be top players in this division.

    The biggest criticisms appear to be that the revolution is not dramatic enough, the lack of midfield strength/bite/pace and that we haven't adequately replaced Pukki.

    Sargent scored 9 goals in 19 games where he played a striker last season, and just 4 when pushed elsewhere. Give him 40+ games as a striker and that's a 20 goal season, and that's before we allow for the development of a playing style that better suits Sargent, or any development of Sargent himself. The "Pukki or Sargent" conundrum last season was resolved to Sargent's deteriment last season as he was the more flexible player. Sargent has a clear run to be the main man now. And so, Barnes doesn't need to score 20 goals, he needs to chip as a supporting player in exactly the way he did for Burnley last season, and hopefully with a few more minutes he'll be able to equal the 10 goals our irreplacable 20 goal scorer (Pukki) managed last season. He scored more frequently than Pukki last season (every 271 mins vs every 294), is only a few months older, and is less reliant on pace or a singular playing style to create chances for him.

    And fundamentally, "the technical deficiencies of this group" are somewhat by design. We might not have a finisher or creator with the elegance of Pukki or Buendia, or a stylish passer like Vrancic or Leitner, but those sides all got found out in the Premier League. We've moved away from exciting, porous Farkeball for a reason. Whilst Farkeball relied on Buendia and Pukki as primary goal outlets, particularly in our second promotion where we were more defensively robust, I think the hope is that Sargent, Barnes, Fassnacht, Sara are all capable of 8-10 goals or more.

    Looking at the Huddersfield team which Wagner achieved promotion with, their top scorer was Kachunga with 12 goals, then Nakhi Wells got 10, nobody else got more than 4. A 20 goal scorer is not essential for promotion. From 21 promoted teams in the last 7 seasons, 10 didn't have a 20-goal scorer, and Sargent's 13 goals last season would have been enough to be top scorer for 4 of those sides. (Workings below)

    Duffy on paper looks at least equivalent to Hanley, and as much as we like Max, you can't go on to criticise the lack of increased physicality, stature, etc in our midfield and not acknowledge that Stacey does add that to our back line. The technical quality of Dowell is presumably to be replaced by Sainz, I'm not sure why he wasn't mentioned here.

    If you want to criticise the midfield, and presuming this largely means central midfield, does that need to start from saying who you don't want in it? Sara is one of the first names on the team-sheet, and McLean was getting rave reviews in January/February for his reinvention as a DM/deep-lying playmaker. He was a big loss when injured last season, the Wagner/McLean combination was P13, W6, D3, L4 GF 20 GA 13. There's some new-manager bounce in there sure, but we also only conceded more than 1 goal in 3/13 games (and we won 2 of those 3). But that points pace is good enough for the play-offs. So if you aren't taking Sara out, and McLean seems at least servicable as primary DM in Wagnerball, do you want less of Nunez or Gibbs? Both of those players look like they have big potential to improve this season. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind adding a Tettey-like midfielder to our squad, but does that single addition mean we won't get bullied?

    Our starting front 3/4 under Wagner last season consisted of: Sargent (15 starts), Onel (15), Pukki (11), Idah (9), Marquinhos (7), Dowell (7), Gibbs (5), Tzolis (3) = Total 72 starts

    Of those 72 starts, 25 are from 3 players who have left, with Barnes, Sainz and presumably Fassnacht coming here with the intention of starting. Our starting front 4 might well be playing in a different shape, with Sargent the only player present in both seasons. Do we have to throw out every player from last season for that to count as revolution?


    ______________________
    22/23: Burnley's top scorer last season had 17, Sheffield Utd's 14 (Carlton Morris did get 20 for Luton). Before that.
    21/22: Fulham (43), Bournemouth (29), Forest (14)
    20/21: Norwich (26), Brentford (31), Watford (13)
    19/20: Leeds (16), WBA (10), Fulham (26)
    18/19: Norwich (29), Sheffield Utd (23), Villa (25)
    17/18: Wolves (17), Cardiff (10), Fulham (15)
    16/17: Newcastle (23), Brighton (23), Huddersfield (12)
     
    #2077
  18. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post, DH. Great detail and accuracy. As Suffolk says, we could include Fisher in the first team as he seems mature beyond his 19 years. Yes, he needs to bulk up, but he reminds me of Aarons being used to make up the numbers in preseason 5 years ago, only for him to take over the RB shirt and keep it ever since.
     
    #2078
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  19. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    We finished last season with Sorensen covering at centre back because we were down to 2 cb.
    Blowing any chance of a play off spot.
    Byram the season before .
    Amadou Tettey it's the same every season.

    We gamble on 3 & hope at least 2 stay fit or pick up a suspension which of course they don't.

    We've been screaming out for a DM for about 5 years but now we have completely abandoned the idea of someone who can play there altogether.

    Barnes is not an adequate replacement for Pukki , Fisher is nowhere near as good as Aarons & anyone we panic sign now will have missed the entire pre season.

    As a realist our best hope is to finish above Ipswich this season by what I've seen.

    There is no creativity or 20 goal striker in the squad, Sargent has been terrible since the World Cup where he failed to score , Idah chips in with 1 or 2 goals a season & Barnes is basically a journeyman & unlikely to make double figures.
    I would love to be proven wrong but we still don't look like scoring .

    Add to that the long scoreless winless Carrow Road run & I'm struggling to get too excited about this season .

    I'm going to the home friendly this Saturday so we'll see how prepared we are for the Hull game next week.
     
    #2079
  20. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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