Off Topic Politics Thread

Ian Thumwood said:

I agree with a lot ot this but with the caveat that I do not really think that the Democrats are much better than the Republicans. There is no real political Left in the US and we tend to confuse their notions of "liberal" as being Left-leaning. Amercians have little perception of Socialism and their views towards it are irrational and hostile. It always annoys me that people in Europe think that there is some sort of close relationship between the British and the Americans yet, in reality, there is a lack of intelligence over there which is of a frightening magnitude and that is difficult for the Brits to understand. I find it strange that we should still be allied with the Americans and that, if anything, Trump taught up that we cannot afford to be caught up with the policies of someone who is clearly unfit for office. America represents a lot of what is wrong about Capitalism and ultimately respect for the environment. I do not see how, in the 21st Century, we can persist with such strong markets when the planet is in such a bad state.

It is a very difficult decision to think how the UK should align its foreign policy. I feel uncomfortable having the Americans as allies yet they are far more preferable than Russia, India, the Middle East and China, although I feel that the latter will ultimate become sufficiently powerful that all nations will need to review their relationship with this country. There will be a point that will be reached where opposing China may not be at all feasible or practical. At the moment, it seems stupid that our ties with Europe have been broken albeit this is where the UK fits most comfortably within a geo-politcal scale. Despite language differences, we have more in common with our European friends than countries like America where people still consider Trump to be credible. At least in the UK people have come around to realising that Boris was totally inappropriate as a politcal leader and his stock as a serious politician has been totally destroyed.

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Your arrogance is astounding to me.

Of course, there are clearly some thick Americans, just like in every country. We have a disproportionate amount over here too.

But the American constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written. Decentralising power and putting it in the citizens hands is what has given us in the West almost all of the positive things we take for granted. I am glad they are willing to defend liberalism and freedom.

Governments trend toward authoritarianism over time. It’s the natural tendency of governments to get bigger & bigger and gain more and more power. The USA in 1788 is the only nation in history to have found a way to counter this. One of the biggest problems in the world now is that governments are completely ignoring constitutions and laws that were made centuries ago for the good of the people.

They are correct to be scared of socialism and communism (and facism). The biggest threats to humanity in history have always come from governments with too much power.

Have you ever considered that you are the ignorant one that hasn’t learned from history, and not them?

Osvaldorama said:

I really don’t get an argument against voter ID at all. Why wouldn’t you want a fairer election?

If someone is too stupid to obtain a valid ID, I don’t want them deciding the fate of the country anyway

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Tbh mate, if someone is stupid enough to swallow every bit of right wing propaganda they swallow on the darker regions of the internet I don’t want them deciding the future of the country; but that’s democracy. One person, one vote.

Archers Road said:

Tbh mate, if someone is stupid enough to swallow every bit of right wing propaganda they swallow on the darker regions of the internet I don’t want them deciding the future of the country; but that’s democracy. One person, one vote.

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Wanting voters to prove who they are is right wing propaganda? Hahahaaha. You are truly mental.

If anything there should be an IQ test and general knowledge quiz before voting as well.

PS. Shock you attack the poster not the point again. Because you know you have no leg to stand on

Osvaldorama said:

Wanting voters to prove who they are is right wing propaganda? Hahahaaha. You are truly mental.

If anything there should be an IQ test and general knowledge quiz before voting as well.

PS. Shock you attack the poster not the point again. Because you know you have no leg to stand on

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It’s voter suppression mate, conscious and targeted.

And I didn’t attack you personally. I was referring to all brainwashed right wing conspiracy loons; now if you want to put yourself in that category..,

Archers Road said:

It’s voter suppression mate, conscious and targeted.

And I didn’t attack you personally. I was referring to all brainwashed right wing conspiracy loons; now if you want to put yourself in that category..,

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It’s calibrating elections to be geared towards honesty.

It really isn’t a big issue. Everyone should have a form of ID. I really struggle to understand why it’s a bad thing? Surely we should do everything possible to make elections fair and honest?

I honestly don’t understand how it’s voter suppression, seems like an outrageous take to me

During WWII, the SS selected Jews, in the death camps, to act as “supervisors” and to help control the population of the camps.
Many of them, in order to curry favour with their SS overlords, used their position and power to unnecessarily abuse and punish their own people.
I believe that they were known as Kapos.
Is there an equivalent name for people in politics who, despite being in an ethnic minority group, are over zealous in their condemnation of ethnic minority groups?
Braverman, yesterday, was very vocal in condemning British Pakistanis for the part they play in grooming young girls for sexual exploitation, yet the Home Office’s own report clearly found that the people most likely to be guilty of grooming young girls are white men under the age of 30.
Yes we have to go after every person that fits the description of being a groomer, but her comments are clearly designed to scapegoat one group of people over others, causing division.
IMO the Tory party, that is mostly made up of elderly white people, has pulled off a master stroke in the way they have promoted people from ethnic minority backgrounds into positions of power, to carry out their anti migrant and racist agenda.

ChilcoSaint said:

Although it’s worth pointing out that the last time the Conservative Party membership chose a leader they voted for Liz Truss, a white female , over Rishi Sunak, a brown man.

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True but I was thinking in terms of Patel and Braverman, who are being ably supported by Sunak.

Minister Slips Out Massive Cuts To Social Care Pledges
By John Stevens

TORY ministers have halved funds pledged to boost social care workers.

The Government vowed £500million for recruitment and staff retention.

But now ministers say they will fork out just £250m – for training places as well as a new Care Certificate qualification.

And the promised “at least £150m” to digitise records is now £100m.

The cuts, slipped out last night by Care Minister Helen Whately, did not mention the previously announced £25m to support unpaid carers or £300m to integrate housing into local health and care strategies.

LETDOWN

Last month Ms Whately told a conference of hard-pressed carers she was part of a Government that “backs social care”.

Despite the massive cuts, last night she said the revised package “focuses on recognising care with the status it deserves”.

Age UK’s Caroline Abrahams said the measures “aren’t remotely enough to transform social care”.

She said their Care Support Alliance members are telling the charity this is “just the latest in a long series of disappointments”.

This was written by a black journalist who recognises the dangerous game being played by Braverman and Sunak and can call it out without fear of being called a bigot.


Why Braverman Is Most Worrying Tory Of Them All


News Reporter

SHE’S already a textbook example of ambition exceeding ability, frothing with nastiness towards her fellow man. Now it turns out Suella Braverman is more than a little hypocritical too.

The Home Secretary with the spectacular lack of self- awareness has been manipulating the system – the very accusation she has levelled at migrants.

Those who champion the diversity of a system that enabled her and Rishi Sunak to rise to their respective positions still don’t seem to grasp that they’d never have made it that far had they not agreed to vilify and demonise people who look like them.

For a Conservative Party without a plan that has shredded our public services, a Prime Minister happy to stoke fear by making “small boats” central to his party leadership campaign pledges and a Home Secretary determined to start a race war are perfect distractions.

Braverman’s bid to stoke tensions by making sweeping generalisations about Pakistani men in relation to grooming gangs is undermined by a report from her own department which makes clear most gangs are made up of white men.

The NSPCC and experts on grooming gangs have warned ministers that framing the issue as one based on ethnicity could prove counter-productive, hampering efforts to actually protect the young girls in danger.

But why on earth would Braverman allow those facts to get in the way of a good scaremongering?

It is what makes her, in a crowded field, the most dangerous Tory politician of recent times – and you thought Johnson, Priti Patel and Matt Hancock were bad.

Braverman weaponises her colour to prevent those uncomfortable with doing so from challenging her bigotry.

She’d willingly pack people who look like your columnist off to Rwanda, to appease the rabid, far-right racists who want to purge this country.

Braverman lies to overestimate the scale of the migrant issue when United Nations statistics confirm most move to countries nearest to their own.

Braverman would have us all at each others’ throats when we should be joining forces to ask why we are all having to meet our rising energy costs while she doesn’t.

Let’s all keep holding this Home Secretary to account on the truth.

Braverman might not recognise it because she deals so often in deflection and misrepresentation.

But we can give her a helping hand.

Osvaldorama said:

It’s calibrating elections to be geared towards honesty.

It really isn’t a big issue. Everyone should have a form of ID. I really struggle to understand why it’s a bad thing? Surely we should do everything possible to make elections fair and honest?

I honestly don’t understand how it’s voter suppression, seems like an outrageous take to me

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It's a solution to a problem that didn't exist

My brother has neither a driving licence or a passport

He has issues with anxiety, voting (something which has always done) has now become a lot harder for him for no reason

His ability to vote has been suppressed.

I agree with all the above. As a British Asian, I am uncomfortable with what Sue Ellen has said. If the stats backed it up, she would be the ideal person (ie a British Asian) to say it. But they don’t.

It gives all the bigots and racists out there a ‘qualified’ voice.

It is dangerous to generalise any minority as stats may show one more likely to commit a crime, but if for argument (plucking figures out of the air here to prove a point) 90% of grooming gangs were committed by x type of people, it may be relevant but x type of people may be 0.01% of x as a whole. Not really relevant then.

not sure if I have got my point across but I know what I mean!

Osvaldorama said:

It’s calibrating elections to be geared towards honesty.

It really isn’t a big issue. Everyone should have a form of ID. I really struggle to understand why it’s a bad thing? Surely we should do everything possible to make elections fair and honest?

I honestly don’t understand how it’s voter suppression, seems like an outrageous take to me

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In a free country, why? Blair was always trying to push this, was one of his worst ideas imo. (apart from invading Iraq).


Our elections are fair and honest. The Tories have invented a non-problem, in order to suppress the right to vote, of the sort of people their focus groups tell them are most unlikely to vote Tory. This is a deliberate anti-democratic strategy borrowed from the right in the US.

TBH I don't have a massive issue with having to have ID to vote. You have to have ID for most things these days (e.g. to receive or collect parcels) so it makes at least some sense to prove your identity in order to vote. Now the timing of introducing these measures is another matter entirely.

tomw24 said:

TBH I don't have a massive issue with having to have ID to vote. You have to have ID for most things these days (e.g. to receive or collect parcels) so it makes at least some sense to prove your identity in order to vote. Now the timing of introducing these measures is another matter entirely.

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It would sensible if voter fraud was a problem. It isn't and the inequality of acceptable ID as has been pointed out in many posts make the introduction a blatant form of gerrymandering at a cost of £180m + to the taxpayer.

The only (possible) part of any of this Voter ID requirement that is not designed to produce a right-leaning vote is that it is being introduced just before local elections, rather than a General Election. This might (might) mean that enough people who were unaware of the requirement to provide some form of ID are jolted into doing something about it. One option, which is 'free', although you do need access to the internet, is the 'Voter Authority Certificate'. If anyone searches for something like "Obtaining Voter Identification", they ought to find a gov.uk site, which enables people to obtain a Voter Authority Certificate, at no cost (apart from providing a photo.

The government are going to launch a series of adverts about this, probably far too late to allow voters to vote at local elections.