Should England Defy the Poppy ban?

I have found this thread to most unpleasant reading and am disappointed that the memory of the dead from the conflicts with which we have been involved have been abused by politicians and by football's governing body.

However the easy way in which people have dismissed the sacrifices made by those who have died in war has left me astonished by their callousness.

My Grandfather, who I knew and loved, was devastated by WW1. He was the the Lance Corporal in a machine gun team which meant he fired the gun. He was involved in many of the well known battles of that terrible war which meant that he was responsible for many deaths. My grandmother used to say that he was never the same man when he came home after the end of the war.

I cannot begin to contemplate the terrible carnage he must have witnessed. He lost his two brothers during the war and did everything that he could to protect his son when WW2 started but my uncle found himself fighting for his life on the beaches at Normandy and had to fight his way through Europe to Germany to help put an end to the most evil regime the world has known.

This Friday my uncle and I shall be in my grandfather's village placing a wreath on the War Memorial and will do so with great pride to honour a brave man and his equally brave brothers.

As for the England players wearing a poppy on their shirt it does not matter one jot to me.

 

Firstly, your avatar is making me hungry (a little worrying)

Its not about reparations, its only about the millions of young adults massacred in the prime of there lives. Death was punishment enough for the Germans.

I don't believe you had to know somebody individually to respect what they were forced to go through.

 

That thread kinda puts everything in perspective. You can go to your grandfather's village with your head held high.

 

Devil, One of the main things that was winding me up, was the lack of knowledge. If the England team want to wear poppies, they should be allowed to, as it is a mark of respect, NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT AS STATED BY fifa.

 

You haven't quite thought that one through, have you. Just remember the fallen dead another way..? This is the other way. It's a non-political way of remembering, and has always been thus. Sadly, it took a 21 year old to write... as if anyone cares enough.. Well people do.

As it happens, FIFA have relented somewhat and are allowing England to wear red poppy emblems on their black armbands.

 

They have asked and been turned down, but a compromise has been reached with the armband and wreath laying. This has been terrific promotion for the sale of poppies and will raise lots of funds for the good work they do. Everyone in the crowd (who wants to) can wear a poppy and show support.

 

I've thought it through a lot more than any of you sheep have. I don't know how exactly you remember things, but I'm quite capable of doing so whether or not the England team wears a poppy on their shirts. And I wasn't saying people shouldn't care about the dead, I was saying people shouldn't care about the England team wearing a stupid poppy. It's really quite sad that I need to spell that out.

 

Yet again I agree with you. When I see oversized novelty poppies on the front of cars and buses, I wonder if we've missed the point.

 

Hang on am I missing something here, Joe Steinberg? Not a Germanophiliac are you, that would explain the lack of respect for people who fallen in battle defending your right for free speech

 

But you do. This is an emotive issue. Explaining yourself should be the first priority. Although I still think you've not understood the significance.

 

Before I even dignify that ******ed comment with a response, or explain to you from where my surname originates, I would like to give you a chance to explain what exactly you mean by "Germanophiliac" and what sympathy, if any, you have for all the German soldiers who died during both wars.

 

I explained myself the first time around, but you missed the point and found one that wasn't even there.

 

Oh I saw your point. But it actually boils down to a lack of respect for the dead. People are not just remembering the dead on one side. It is the dead on all sides.

I am like yourself that I find wars across the world appalling and that they shouldn't be fought. But tell that to a military dictator when he comes over the hill with his army. Some times, you have to do things you don't want to do. I'm sure most of the dead, in the wars, weren't in it for the enjoyment.

 

Just to be provocative and I hope I'm am not being disrepectful but...anyone any opinions on why are we so mawkish about rememberance now...it's gained pace comensurate to the reduced no of lads killed...read your history, how many died in one day in the Somme? Battle of Britain etc etc even more recently, compare the losses in the Korean war with Afghanistan... I cant remember this rememberance sentiment as strong in the 50's/60's although, at that time war, had affected virtually every family in the country. Now most families thankfully are unaffected but we seem as a nation to "remember" more intensely then ever.

 

There aren't many WW2 vets left, and fewer every year. We should honour them while we can.

 

Brilliantly summed up.

 

My granddaughter came home from school where they had been learning about D Day. She said they were going to visit the D Day museum in Southsea. I had a thirty minute DVD on the preparation for D Day which I showed to her and she was surprised that there was a dead soldier in the film. It seemed that they had learned all about D Day but nobody had said a thing about the soldiers who died.

I took my grandaughter to Normandy and we visited the beaches and the British, American and German Cemeteries. She was most upset at the German Cemetary because I made her work out how old many of the soldiers were who were buried there. She was so upset as she could not believe that so many were the same age as her.

Remembrance is not just about our dead it is about all armed forces men and women who have died as well as civilians of all nations killed by conflict.

Remembrance is not about glorifying war it is about saying we must put an end to it for the death of one person is far too high a price.

 

Yes, perfect.

 

At that time I was an apprentice in a large engineering company and many of the men had served in that conflict and had lost good friends. I can tell you at 11.00 am on the 11/11 we all stood by our benches for two minutes silence. You would be a very brave fool to challenge the Remembrance at that time as memories were still so raw.

We are a golden generation in that we have known peace, prosperity and security and this has made us forget the absolute fear that our parents and our grandparents experienced living through WW2.

If you are Southampton born go and look at the memorial in Hoglands Park to the civilians who died in the air raids on Southampton and then go and tell the descendants of the people who worked at the Supermarine Works at Woolston that their sacrifice is not worth remembering.

 

I have respect for all that have fallen, whatever race or religion, but the point of the Poppy is a peaceful one, it is to remind us of all of the ones that have fallen to ensure peace for everyone, it doesn't imply race, or religion in its message, despite the fact that these are the prime reasons for war. I am sorry if my little jest upsets you, this is a serious matter and probably rides above humour. All I ask is that you respect the Poppy for what it is, it is just wrong that it should be a political football or a cause for disagreement on a web site.