Of course, and I did start off yesterday by saying I was surprised people were so pleased with Tufan since he blasted it off the pitch whenever he had a key involvement. Someone else brought up stats and said he's one of our better players stats wise, but it turns out his stats are actually pretty poor compared to our other midfielders.
Tufan is meant to be a defensive midfielder. He just doesn’t look much like one to me, and his ability with the ball is more like that of an attacking player. He’s also clearly a far better player than Slater.
Skimming the thread it appears we can't even agree on what the stats are telling us. I know disagreement on here must come as a shock to all of us. But here we are.
Tufan is a box to box midfielder. Who at the start of the season was used in a creative/free roam role to accommodate him rather than make him excel. Rosenior has got him in shape and played him in his role he found success on a national team and European level. Arguably his performance of the season on Preston just behind Burnley away. It’ll be interesting how those stats compare now he’s being used correctly.
You’ve always had it in for players that don’t have a boring name like Smith but surely on Saturday you could see any fluid attacking moves were coming through Tufan. He was the only player making things happen. We obviously haven’t seen anywhere near the best from him yet, it would be good to see him get a run of games in his natural position in the middle to see if he can get up and running properly and see what he can do, particularly now Seri is out for awhile.
If I always have it in for exotic players then I'd have an issue with Seri, but he's been excellent. He's as good technically as people say Tufan is. You're sort of right though: I am often suspicious that these reputations affect people's perceptions of players and I really do think that phenomenon has exploded this season. The way people are talking about Slater lately is mental. And this thing with Tufan. I'm sorry but I just can't see how it's anything other than his reputation as an international that's affecting it. I liked him at the start of the season but it's now months since he last did anything of note. You talk about his performance on Saturday but he did keep putting it in the stand. That's not even an opinion, it's what he did. He blasted a ridiculous shot over in the first half and overhit two crosses into the south stand in the second half. How many chances did he create? How many times did he put a good ball in? I honestly don't remember any and no one else seems to be able to either. What he did do well was winning the ball back and pressing. But people keep saying how good he is technically and I think it's fascinating in a way that the bar seems to be so much lower for him than it is for the likes of Slater.
Because Slater starts every week so why wouldn’t you hold the player the manager seemingly prefers to a high standard? Tufan created 2 chances (as many as Slater in his last 3 appearances) made 4 tackles (as many as Slater has in his last 5 games). He’s not a creative midfielder, never has been in his career all the evidence before he joined said that. But because of how good he is he was used in that role at the start of the season and now you’re treating him as if he is one. Can’t say Slater has anything beyond disappointing recently and it’s purely because he’s being used in a role he’s simply not got the qualities for. He’s a sitting midfielder and that’s where he was brilliant at the start of the season. I talk about him the way I do because he seemingly gets a free pass an awful lot of the time when he plays poorly. He’s not been a standout player for us for ages, yet still plays every week. It’s just opinions at the end of the day.
I'm assuming the reputation part of that is a joke seeing as the guy's been slated over the course of the season for being overweight, lazy, non-committed, wanting to leave, having a bad attitude at previous clubs, will only play well in Turkey etc. He's had question marks over him since he joined us based on nothing other than conjecture. I think the way he plays brings so much more to the team than a handful of people are willing to give him credit for. If these shots that went over the bar had all gone into the top corner and he could do that as consistently as you want him to then he wouldn't be playing for us. On another day he'll bury a couple of them. He gets himself into the positions needed to damage the opposition or create space for others. Having watched him a whole bunch of times now, I don't see how anyone can doubt his ability, or commitment unless their opinion is clouded by the initial 'gossip' surrounding his attitude etc. I think he's done enough to dispel all myths now.
I think those question marks are the only reason he’s playing for us. He’s clearly well above championship standard, seems to have lost his way a bit falling out at Fenerbahce and struggling at the basket case that is Watford, and gone from being a £20m internationally coveted talent to where he is now. Hopefully he can get back on track and at the top of his game.
It can often be the second season of a squad building project where you begin see its potential. It's rarely immediate. Quite often the groundwork to success at clubs has been literally years in the laying. The 30 odd games you feel is sufficient to gel and mature a team in order identify its inadequacy have also been disrupted by 2 changes in management and an extraordinary spate of injuries to key attacking signings. . The player you're writing off had played all of 10 games worth of minutes prior to his 2 months out and it takes 6-7 matches to even get fully match fit. Didn't even come in until very late in the summer window. Before the World Cup break his goals contribution rate was better than 1 in 3.5 games despite all of this. I really do wonder sometimes why some seem almost desparate to prematurely write city off and scapegoat our players. Talk about a sense of entitlement to instant success....
Depends if they're stats relating to safe passes or ones actually trying to make something happen. Less risk, less reward, better stats.
So in essence we're almost lucky to have him... I'd agree. I think he's proved it too up to now. Yet the man still has his doubters. I can fully understand people being skeptical when we signed him, but he's surely an improvement to our midfield. I think the criticism he still gets is a hangover from the labels he's been given, whether he acquired them fairly or unfairly. His time at Hull City seems like a fresh start in many senses, one that he's so far taking very well.
Once again, I think you're clutching at straws. When your recruitment is right success tends to be instant, we've seen that with Burnley in our division and even Arsenal in the PL. This notion that it takes lots of time is just an excuse for subpar recruitment. You look at Pelkas and even Tufan who are rumoured to be on £30k a week and that sort of money gets you top and proven players at this level and I don't think either of them has come close to providing value on that. We will be better next season because we'll likely dump many of the players we signed last summer and reinvest that better
There will be decisions to be made I agree there, but you can only look at grealish at man City to see how it takes players time to settle - and I'll respectfully disagree that in most cases success is instant if recruitment is right. It's the exception. Even sir Alex used to tell us when he felt it was too soon for a squad to challenge as you need to develop that coherent understanding between players over time. It's all about consistency and that comes with familiarity and understanding. They've only been playing Rosie-ball for 4 months and there's been so many changes in attacking areas there's been very little stability. Even Tufan has been in and out and used in 3 different positions. And no, 30k a week is not a top championship salary. Its a decent one, but not a top one. Arteta has been squad building and getting dogs abuse for underperforming the past 2 years - the squad this years success is built on has largely come from that platform. I don't know how you can think it's all down to their summer recruitment as it clearly isn't.
It's such a strange debate this. You make out like I'm demanding he scores screamers every week. He's not scoring at all. Or creating. I don't hate the guy and I don't particularly have an issue with his attitude or fitness, I just don't accept this increasingly popular rhetoric that he's a cut above our other midfielders. Some people are saying he's actually a defensive midfielder and should be viewed as such. Maybe that's the case, I can certainly agree that he's recently had more success at winning the ball back than he has at anything attacking. But that's a separate debate because at the same time others are saying he's an incisive creator who plays high-risk passes, even though nobody can remember any of them and the stats say he makes less key passes than other players who nobody considers creative.
