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Nathan Jones sacked as Saints er....."manager"

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Osvaldorama, Jan 4, 2023.

  1. Osvaldorama

    Osvaldorama Well-Known Member

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    For me it’s nothing to do with charisma at all. I actually don’t hate his press conferences etc. I think he’s an honest bloke trying his best.

    Purely based on what I see at games and how we have been set up, I think he is making horrific decisions and has been from the start. The big warning sign for me is his inability to play square pegs in square holes.

    Playing Lavia against Blackpool instead of Newcastle is borderline criminal.
    Playing Bree, Bednarek and Lyanco in a back 5 is borderline criminal.

    Why do we seem to get managers that can’t see their best team. Why do they change formations and confuse the players? It’s ****ing maddening.

    Fully expecting to see our new signings at ****ing wing back or something. We 100% have more points if Ralph was still here. Should have kept him and signed some players if we were going to stoop this low in managerial choices.
     
    #681
  2. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Leaving aside football philosophy for a moment, I warm to Jones for exactly the reason others seem to struggle with him; that belligerent underdog mentality is a plus for me. And it certainly could be, for a squad of players currently at the bottom of the league. I can see how it might not work at Man City, but we’re not Man City, and no amount of continental hipster managerial appointments are going to make us Man City. We can, however, dream about being a Clough era Notts Forest.
     
    #682
  3. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    Yeah I like his prickliness in interviews tbh. My sort of geezer.

    If he could just stop the hoofball and make sensible team selections for big cup matches then I'd be a big fan.

    Definitely deserves the season regardless though imo.
     
    #683
  4. Lovelocum

    Lovelocum Well-Known Member

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    Im beginning to think this.
     
    #684
  5. SaintinNZ

    SaintinNZ Well-Known Member

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    Tell that to Burnley Archers. You and I seem to agree about a lot of things but for me this appointment just doesn't seem to fit with our recruitment or our supposed 'way'.
     
    #685
  6. SaintsForTheWin

    SaintsForTheWin Any holes a goal

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    Like Puel and Pellegrino fitted into our supposed way? Those 2 got far less stick than Jones. Pellegrino was particularly horrific who showed no improvement the whole time he was with us
     
    #686
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  7. Pelletron

    Pelletron Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you here. I think the telltale signs that it is about the personality is that the attacks on him are often so personal. Of course, it's about his football, but the worst manager we've had since we have been most recently promoted was Pellegrino imo. He never had personal attacks made so often against him - I mean, even if NJ's favourite pizza is Hawaiian, are we saying that makes him a bad football man, or are we suggesting actually that it makes him lower class than anyone else, and us more enlightened and better than him? It is indicative to me that this is as much about charisma and personality. Yes, many hate his brand of football and his way in an interview too - but much of the slights on him as a person have come before he'd had any chance to impress much on the club.

    Pellegrino I could see immediately was out of his depth - it was plain to see. Mark Hughes was a dinosaur and imo didn't deserve as much credit as he got from the club for us staying up. NJ is having a tough ride way before any of those got it, and I challenge anyone to come out in interviews under that much pressure and not be slightly defensive!

    Two things for me support NJ's tenure:

    - somewhere in there I think he knows what he wants to do and how he wants to play. I just don't think he has managed to make it work yet - at least, not consistently. But not any manager could come out and have his team beat Man City in the manner we did. There's something there, for me. Given the pressurised circumstances I would certainly struggle to hit the ground running - when starting from the bottom of the pile;

    - I trust SR's decision-making. They are the first ownership/leadership group we've had since promotion who have a stake in the football itself. They have had success at other clubs using the same methods. They are massively on the line for this decision - and they are not wanting to shoot themselves in the foot. Sure, it's possible to have a misfire, and this may be it. But this could be a massive setback in what was a massive business move for them, involving multi-club ownership, and they are not randomly plucking a Championship manager who has no idea what he's doing and putting him in charge of managing us for fun.

    A final point that cements for me that this is about the cult of personality is that so much anger is actually aimed at Nathan Jones. He is obviously going to accept this job if offered. He is obviously going to try to do the job to his best abilities, even if he himself feels out of his depth. Do people expect him to tender his resignation? For me, for those unhappy with the decision, this is all at SR's feet all day long - they hired him, they're accountable for the risk of relegation, they're buying or not buying (I forget which is the point of contention now) the players to support him. To get this angry with a new manager so quickly after his start at the club is unusual - and it is the hiring of him that has pissed everyone off, so people should feel sorry for NJ if anything.
     
    #687
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
  8. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don’t really care how belligerent he is, but if he doesn’t set up the team right, we won’t win football matches. Clough was belligerent, but he was also very tactically astute, so I fear its apples and oranges in comparison terms.
     
    #688
  9. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Good post, and good food for thought. Thank you.
     
    #689
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  10. Saintmagic

    Saintmagic Well-Known Member

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    How long was Pelegrín’s here? I seem to remember him being sacked around November time but maybe I’m getting him confused with Hughes
     
    #690

  11. SaintsForTheWin

    SaintsForTheWin Any holes a goal

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    Came in June, sacked in march. Hughes came in and kept us up. Hughes sacked in November or around then and replaced with Ralph
     
    #691
  12. Saintmagic

    Saintmagic Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, he signed Carrillo in Jan, I remember now
     
    #692
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  13. SaintinNZ

    SaintinNZ Well-Known Member

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    Which validates Jones how? I certainly never said those two were good examples though I thought Puel was harshly treated.
     
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  14. lewebster

    lewebster Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't have put it better myself.

    It's the underdog thing that I like, that's what we are, always have been. Just look at how we were written off before the Man City game, look at how we were written off before the Newcastle games.

    We have all had it all our life, and now NJ has come in and most of us can't or won't get behind him! Many people didn't want him here in the first place even though most people didn't know who the hell he was.

    They were told by others he is **** and we won't win a game with him.

    They were told he constantly says they rather than we.

    They were told about his religious beliefs.

    They were told he ****ed up at Stoke.

    I even read somewhere that he was a Pompey fan with a Tattoo of their crest!

    Since then we have struggled, and it is all Jones fault even though we have been struggling for at least the last year, we were 90th I believe for form over the year, that all happened before NJ came in and people can't seem to understand that this process will take time and a good January window to hopefully rectify.

    People then slagged off SR as they weren't gonna get anyone in and we are going down.

    I would laugh at the whole thing if it wasn't so disappointing. I'm actually a bit ashamed that people wouldn't see past the results for the time being and see that SR and NJ have a bloody hard job on their hands and are doing their best. I'm ashamed that before NJ even came in, people wanted him out.

    I hope more than anything that NJ can shove it down our throats and that we can universally love the guy, he's a bigger man than I am for having to hear things and read things and still go to work to try and get results for a club that he has no previous affiliation with.

    He's here for the season regardless of what happens and he is our best hope of getting out of the ****. You would think we were seriously cut adrift with some of the comments I read.

    Even after spending 2nd most in the league in January, there are so many comments about how we are still going down because of Jones, it's insane.

    I'm not saying I've enjoyed all of the football, some of it has been piss poor, some of it fantastic but it has definitely been getting better and now we have 2 more pieces of the puzzle to give NJ the tools he needs.

    I tell you what I have enjoyed though....Jones.... I'm sorry if I'm in the minority but I can't help it, I like the guy, the press conferences are quality, the way he stands his ground and gets a bit spikey is top drawer, and I think some of the **** he has had to deal with means why the **** shouldn't he get spikey.

    Now let's get behind him and the team and see what happens, I think you will be pleasantly surprised!
     
    #694
  15. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Well said. The vitriolic personal abuse is more than unacceptable. Wether or not we're able to avoid relegation is yet to be seen and I hope when it's achieved due praise is given.
     
    #695
  16. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Another reasoned view on our current situation and those that manage and run the club. Here's hoping for a chorus of Handel's finest when salvation from relegation is confirmed.
     
    #696
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  17. Osvaldorama

    Osvaldorama Well-Known Member

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    I certainly haven’t given him any personal abuse. I have said a few times I like him, and the way he gives stick/banter back. I hope that stops, he deserves better.

    I also was pretty vocal for a long time about how **** Pellegrino was, and unfortunately see NJ in the same mould - out of his depth.

    Libby, you said you think he’s earned the season. Is that because of the city win? Or something else?

    For me the Forest game overrules that. I have never seen saints play so badly in a must-win game before.

    Ultimately it looks like he is going nowhere, so all we can do is get behind him.
     
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  18. SaintMarv

    SaintMarv Well-Known Member

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    The only problem I have with Jones is playing a back 5. Jones said the players told him they can't play with a back 5 the fans know we can't play with a back 5 and yet he still plays with back 5. We play better when don't play a back 5 so he should've noticed that by now. I still think we have a good manager in Jones and I will not except relegation until it is confirmed but if we continue to use a back 5 and get relegated I will hold Jones accountable. If we don't play a back 5 and get relegated and we gave it our best well that's football.
     
    #698
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  19. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    The only reason Jones plays a CB at left or right back is so that he can revert to 3CBs during the game without wasting a substitute, and can shuffle Moi or Edozie into a wingback role.
    It doesn’t seem to occur to him that we lose a lot of attacking intent when you replace Perraud with Salisu, who is also one of the worst passers of a football in the team.
     
    #699
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  20. saintlyhero

    saintlyhero Well-Known Member

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    I admire the optimism surrounding Jones from a few on here. It’s the type of desperate optimism you need to travel up to Newcastle on a Tuesday night.
    For me, I have tried to be positive with managers in the past who have started poorly or the football has been bad and it just never ends well.
    We have him, I hope he does well and can keep us up, but I have seen no signs that it will other than the players seem to like him, but you wonder how long that will last if he hangs them out to dry.
     
    #700

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