thanks given there's 22 players on the pitch that's a lot of passes each for some players granted you do see a lot of players play balls back and forth to improve their statistics
We seem to have erased from history the number of times we gave goals away under McCann/Shota through ill-judged passes while passing around at the back. There were more last season than so far this, and Ingham was frequently to blame by starting off with a hospital pass to someone (McLoughlin a couple of times) who then lost the ball.
That was in the past and has no bearing on now. We will make mistakes doing it, but that’s why we are where we are not where Brentford or Brighton are.
Absolutely one of the points of playing out from the back is to invite the press to create more room up field. In many cases you see teams not taking the bait and waiting at he half way line to make the press. We saw a lot of that in the world cup., Opposing Teams are sometime haopy to see the opposition play the ball backwards and forwards at the back-so no press.
Exactly, so passing it out from the back is going to be intrinsic to how we play. More than any other time this season, the speed at which we transitioned through the thirds was unbelievably quick and accurate and that's a really positive way of playing. But it takes patience and discipline to do that. We'll see a lot of switches in play which won't always come off, but it moves the ball around and stretches the opposition well.
Hey guys, I've got an idea, let's talk about passing back and passing it around in our own area. Give it to the keeper, that sort of thing
Exactly. My point is that these mistakes are not because of our new manager, but because we have players who occasionally make daft decisions.
I’m hoping after the Birmingham game they look to have a handle on it. Although against Blackpool we had a free kick in our penalty box, within three passes we’d managed to get it back to the centre spot!
Our own penalty area is not the place to take risks. Nobody is saying it is wrong to play it out of defence quickly. What is wrong is playing about at the back and giving the opposition a good opportunity to win the ball and score a goal. In football there's always a chance of making a mistake and conceding a goal but a sensible team would try to minimise those risks rather than increase the number.
Those two statements contradict each other and that's what I've been getting at. Our game plan appears to be to draw in their outfield to create space using defenders that are good at passing to keep possession, forcing a press which opens up space for their midfield. It's hard to create that space if the person you're doing it for is already on the ball or having to try and win a 50-50 from an aerial goalkeeper kick. I'd wager every other team in the league knows who Seri is, and will double up on him to prevent him doing what he does best (Birmingham did), so we need to pull players away from him and you do that by keeping the ball. The alternative is launching it down field and playing a long ball, in the hope that we maybe win the second phase and perhaps get a flick on. In order to trigger an opposition press, they need to think they have a chance of taking the ball off us. That comes with a risk, yes, but it's high risk, high reward if it comes off because you're more likely to create that space and then trigger an attack. The last couple of mistakes have come from individual errors, Rosenior will not have said "Matt, play it to the midfield no matter what, even if they're all marked." The team are learning, but it's no good trying to get confidence up and then implementing a style, it all needs to come at the same time and we won't get better if we chop and change our style after every game. We're seeing evidence first hand that we are getting better at doing it. I'm glad Rosie proved me wrong and stuck with it because I get it now.
I said: “Nobody is saying it is wrong to play it out of defence quickly.” “What is wrong is playing about at the back” You said: “Those two statements contradict each other and that's what I've been getting at.” There is no way my two statements contradict each other. If you think there’s a contradiction then there is no way that we will ever agree. You said: “In order to trigger an opposition press, they need to think they have a chance of taking the ball off us. That comes with a risk, yes, but it's high risk, high reward if it comes off because you're more likely to create that space and then trigger an attack.” I agree it’s “high risk” but I disagree it’s “high reward”. “triggering an attack” is a long way from having a chance of a high reward. You said: “I'm glad Rosie proved me wrong and stuck with it because I get it now.” Rosie didn’t stick with it against Birmingham. Maybe once Ingram played it to a defender and then it went back to Ingram. All the other times they played it forward quickly or played it further upfield.
Think the distinction for me is passing it out from the back involves the keeper and defenders passing it up field, rather than Ingram knocking it long. This is good as it draws the opposition in, but as we saw against Birmingham (as opposed to previous games) is when the opposition pressed and it went back to Ingram, he then knocked it long where we more often than not either won the first or second ball in midfield as we had a lot more space to then push up and attack. Previously Ingram would not boot it long, he'd pass to an under pressure defender who would turn the ball over and gift the opposition a chance (same thing happened against Watford, it just didn't result in a goal).
The third option doesn’t exist without creating space. If we have eleven players facing us then all the players in front of our back four will be marked. Playing out from the back allows you to draw players on to you to create space further up the field.
I dont agree with you that all players in front of our back four will be marked have you heard of the term "losing your man" I'm not saying it's easy but midfielders and attackers should be reasonably good at it. Just look at any football match. You will see lots of players not marked tightly. You talk about playing out from the back. Do I still have to remind you that people dont see anything wrong with playing out from the back? City did that against Birmingham. What people dont like is playing around at the back: playing the ball from goalkeeper to defender and back again in the penalty area simply risks conceding a goal.
It is very noticeable that in the second half of many matches we’ve seen over the last few months the second half opens up , either one team changes it’s effort , tactics either due to the score or maybe a halftime rollicking! Secondly players do not mentally or physically retain focus and or energy . I think City try to ‘tire’ the opposition then exploit this to some degree . The half time score dictates a lot .
It's also worth noting that before we adopted the tactic of '****ing about at the back' , which we started well before Rosie joined us, we scored more goals and let fewer in - just a thought
All the other times? They played it backwards and forwards along the back four loads of times. Admittedly, they did lump it forward more when pressed, and almost every time we lost possession.
