Off Topic Politics Thread

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Gregm1988 said:
It’s another thing that has cascaded over from america - where it also isn’t a widespread issue but there are people who have a vested interest in claiming that it is
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The hoops that have to be jumped through in order to vote in America make this attempt by the Tories look feeble, but that’s not the point. It’s the whole concept of distrusting election results, which has never been an issue in this country, not once in the whole of our 100 year history since universal suffrage. As soon as you start focussing on the fact that people might commit personation, or that corruption took place in the counting, or whatever, you allow a disgruntled loser to claim that it has happened. That takes the focus off the issues on which the election was fought.

It’s interesting that the American electorate appear to be getting thoroughly bored of the whole election-denying conspiracy, as evidenced by the poor showing of Trump-backed candidates.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
The hoops that have to be jumped through in order to vote in America make this attempt by the Tories look feeble, but that’s not the point. It’s the whole concept of distrusting election results, which has never been an issue in this country, not once in the whole of our 100 year history since universal suffrage. As soon as you start focussing on the fact that people might commit personation, or that corruption took place in the counting, or whatever, you allow a disgruntled loser to claim that it has happened. That takes the focus off the issues on which the election was fought.

It’s interesting that the American electorate appear to be getting thoroughly bored of the whole election-denying conspiracy, as evidenced by the poor showing of Trump-backed candidates.
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I don't know why it came to mind but a noisy fart is known as a trump and those that let fly are trumpers (fem. trumpettes).
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
I believe the phrase I need is “Oh ****”
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I'm certainly not expecting NATO to roll the tanks out if this was a Russian missile (and not a stray Ukrainian air defense missile or something). But I also wouldn't expect NATO to shrug...the fact that Article 5 is on the table, even if it's unlikely to be invoked, means that NATO likely has to do something, and that something will probably come in the form of the shiny weapons systems they had been refusing to give to Ukraine previously.
 
Schad said:
I'm certainly not expecting NATO to roll the tanks out if this was a Russian missile (and not a stray Ukrainian air defense missile or something). But I also wouldn't expect NATO to shrug...the fact that Article 5 is on the table, even if it's unlikely to be invoked, means that NATO likely has to do something, and that something will probably come in the form of the shiny weapons systems they had been refusing to give to Ukraine previously.
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Something like a no-fly zone in Ukrainian airspace needs to happen immediately.

If it was Russian missiles, the likelihood is that Iran supplied them. They should be booted out of the World Cup straightaway.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
Something like a no-fly zone in Ukrainian airspace needs to happen immediately.

If it was Russian missiles, the likelihood is that Iran supplied them. They should be booted out of the World Cup straightaway.
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Doesn't appear to be of the Iranian loitering munitions variety (ironically, those are more accurate). Earliest guesses are an ex-Soviet missile of some variety, because the debris looks similar.
 
Schad said:
Doesn't appear to be of the Iranian loitering munitions variety (ironically, those are more accurate). Earliest guesses are an ex-Soviet missile of some variety, because the debris looks similar.
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Fair enough. Iran should be booted out anyway, for planning to execute 15,000 of its citizens who are standing up for women’s rights, but hey.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
Fair enough. Iran should be booted out anyway, for planning to execute 15,000 of its citizens who are standing up for women’s rights, but hey.
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I will say: while the Iranian regime is awful in every way, there wasn't any vote to execute 15,000 people. The claim originated with Newsweek, a formerly credible source of information that has taken a sharp turn into right-wing nonsense, which misinterpreted a different article on the matter, at which point it spread:

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A person was sentenced to death. It's obviously one person too many, but it also isn't 15,000.
 
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Schad said:
I will say: while the Iranian regime is awful in every way, there wasn't any vote to execute 15,000 people. The claim originated with Newsweek, a formerly credible source of information that has taken a sharp turn into right-wing nonsense, which misinterpreted a different article on the matter, at which point it spread:

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A person was sentenced to death. It's obviously one person too many, but it also isn't 15,000.
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Hadn’t seen that, so thanks for the update.
 
In other news, Texas is not only criminalizing drag performances, it's doing so in such a way that a trans person simply performing at an open mic night will now a Class A misdemeanor, meaning that it will be punishable by up to a year in jail.

https://legiscan.com/TX/text/HB643/2023

SECTION 2. Section 243.002, Local Government Code, is
amended to read as follows:
Sec. 243.002. DEFINITIONS [DEFINITION]. In this chapter:
(1)"Drag performance" means a performance in which a
performer exhibits a gender identity that is different than the
performer's gender assigned at birth using clothing, makeup, or
other physical markers and sings, lip syncs, dances, or otherwise
performs before an audience for entertainment.

(2) "Sexually [, "sexually] oriented business" means:

(A) a sex parlor, nude studio, modeling studio,
love parlor, adult bookstore, adult movie theater, adult video
arcade, adult movie arcade, adult video store, adult motel, or
other commercial enterprise the primary business of which is the
offering of a service or the selling, renting, or exhibiting of
devices or any other items intended to provide sexual stimulation
or sexual gratification to the customer; or

(B)a nightclub, bar, restaurant, or other
commercial enterprise that provides for an audience of two or more
individuals a drag performance.
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It also criminalizes multiple Shakespearean plays (which involve drag), and Eddie Izzard performing standup comedy. But this is totally about The Children.
 
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shoot_spiderman said:
I don't disagree with the main point you are making, but you are required to show ID in other circumstances, what do you use then?
e.g. Bank AC, Some types of Registered Mail
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I haven't opened an account or used any service that needs ID since my passport expired, so it's not been a problem. I await developments.

Vin
 
San Tejón said:
I still maintain that it is easier to commit voter fraud via the postal vote system than it is by walking into a polling station.
I could have easily done this with my wife’s vote, simply because there were times owing to her illness and medication, when she didn’t know what she was signing.
I didn’t change her vote because she voted the same as me anyway owing to her political beliefs.
I know a woman, near Leicester, who is a staunch Tory supporter.
Her son is a cerebral palsy sufferer who, sadly, isn’t mentally capable of making well thought out decisions for himself so his mum has POA and makes all his decisions for him, including who to vote for.
Bear in mind that at the time of my knowing them, she was constantly bitching about how her son’s benefits and access to support groups were constantly being reduced by the Tory government, yet she still used his vote to support the party that was harming him.
I have no evidence to support my belief but as I say, it is easy to commit voter fraud in the right circumstances ie a carer assisting a dementia sufferer with completing a form but putting the cross in the box of their choosing and not that of the person they are assisting.
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Indeed. It's an area ripe for abuse.

Walking into a polling station to vote as, say, my neighbour risks:

1. He's already voted. Result, investigation and likely prosecution for me

2. He votes later in the day and polling staff realise. Same result.

That's why it doesn't happen. You get caught. This legislation serves no purpose bar making it harder for the poor and the young to vote. Labour should pledge that they will shelve it on the day they are elected.

Vin
 
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Onionman said:
Indeed. It's an area ripe for abuse.

Walking into a polling station to vote as, say, my neighbour risks:

1. He's already voted. Result, investigation and likely prosecution for me

2. He votes later in the day and polling staff realise. Same result.

That's why it doesn't happen. You get caught. This legislation serves no purpose bar making it harder for the poor and the young to vote. Labour should pledge that they will shelve it on the day they are elected.

Vin
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Here in Canada, you need to show ID*, but the list of legit IDs is comically long. Want to vote with your university student ID and your phone bill? That'll work. Your novelty cheques with pictures of dogs on them and your library card? Absolutely! An employee ID and your fishing license? Sure, why not!

I voted a couple cycles back with a driver's license with a severely out-of-date address and a .pdf of my electric bill on my phone. Even though I was technically registered in a different riding, I just had to fill out and sign a form to register in the riding where I was actually living. Took less than five minutes from the time I walked in the building to the time I had cast my ballot.

*You can also have someone attest that you are who you claim to be, even if you don't have ID. So if you walk into your polling station with no ID whatsoever, and someone there says "oh, that's Doug! I know Doug", they have to sign a little form that says that they swear under penalty of law that you are in fact Doug, and then you get to vote. None of these things have introduced voter fraud into the equation, because the cost/benefit of voter fraud doesn't make any sense.
 
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