Thought I’d post this as there’s been a lot of discussion recently on our struggles against low blocking, bus parking teams who try and pick us off on the counter. Question and Answer from JM’s pre Bournemouth presser: Is there a way of nullifying teams that are more set up in more of a deep block or to frustrate, like teams you are more expected to beat on paper? “There’s there’s a lot of little things in there. I think there’s with the ball tactics and movements and ideas. We still are a team that if we gain an advantage in possession, we think we almost always have to go direct. And that’s not the idea. The idea is to now understand how to unbalance teams through a lot of tactical positioning and ball movement. And then what are the last third kind of movements and connections we want to have. And too often we have like a concept that we call often option A, option B, option C with pption A being the most threatening, most vertical action of the time or possibility and then option C being sort of a third-most vertical and too often we are always in our mind is option A and then it means that we’re giving the ball away too often, we’re losing too many advantages by thinking we can always make the most important play at that moment. And then it’s sometimes means that we’re not able to set up our counter pressing and rest defence tactics in moments which then means if we lose bad balls that the opponent has more space to get out on the counter. For this game, that balance and that understanding will be really important.” Now that’s not his most Eloquent response ever but I thought the gist was interesting. He’s saying his team are too focussed on playing the killer difficult forward/vertical ball too early in possession. That in doing so we concede possession too frequently before we have our own counter press and rest defence formation set, which in turn makes us exposed in transition. In layman’s terms when we lose possession we rely on: - a counter press to try and win the ball back - a rest defence (positioning of the none-pressing defensive players to deal with a counter if the press is beaten In short, if we lose the ball too quickly in a move, we’re less likely to have an organised press to win it back again and then also less well set to deal with the counter when it happens. Implication here seems to be that he intends his team to mix it up and be more patient at times against these sides where the pitch/play is more congested but he recognises that we’re not getting it right still. You could look at this and think… it’s positive he recognises the issue and believes they are working on solutions. Or it’s a negative that 6 months in and his team are still choosing the direct option as a default when he doesn’t expect them to. As he says, important we get the balance right v Bournemouth. Let’s see.
No wonder the players look confused at times - they don’t know if they’re coming or going listening to that ****e. Too much over-analysing. They just want to play well, do themselves justice, and enjoy their football. If they do that then more often than not they’ll beat the supposedly weaker teams. No need to over complicate things - just score more goals than the opposition. Job done
He basically said what we all know. Stop making as many mistakes and start hitting the back of the net. A more in depth answer would be that traditionally the way to beat these teams is to make the pitch as big as possible by putting your wide players on the touchline and stretching play. It's a bit of a misconception that Marsch plays too narrow. He does on the counter but when we have controlled possession we do have genuine width with wingers and fullbacks committing to the attack (rather like Bielsa at times, just not all the time). That, as Marsch says, becomes a problem when we give it away cheaply followed by a defensive **** up. We've not really been picked apart by anyone yet this season. We are masters of or own downfall. Basically the lads up top need to put chances away when they come and against the 'park the bus' teams we have to be more patient in possession and move them around. They'll tire and the chances will come.
There was a piece this morning on the Phil Hay podcast where Michael Normanton went to watch Man City in Europe the other night. He said he wanted to see what they did different from Leeds. He said it obviously 100% down to the quality of players. He said when they play out from the back and are being pressed by 4 players, their players can stroll around playing one touch football for hours passing between the keeper and back 3. In attack they can play around on the outside of the box without losing the ball and play great passes to split defences. We tend to lose the ball or pick the wrong option. So the reality isn’t bad tactics just bad execution and wrong choices by lesser players
What I wrote above should mean that fir Marsch not to take the blame for having lesser players, maybe he should adapt his tactics to fit the quality of our players and not hope his players can match up to better teams with better players?
The key things for me was highlighting the vulnerability in conceding possession when you’ve just won it back. Fulham and palace were examples of simple through balls causing us trouble because the defensive formation wasn’t set. How you organise your selves whilst in possession to prepare for when you lose it is especially important for counter-pressing teams. Interesting also to hear him say it’s not the plan to always go vertical quickly - so that’s player decision making on the pitch (or if his rambling yesterday is anything to go by) his inability to get that message home to them
Fair point Doc, and it’s interesting that our style actually has worked better against sides with better quality players- but struggled against those who just shorten the pitch and congest play.
Why don't we park the bus against Bournemouth and hit them on the break. They wouldn't be expecting that
Where and when exactly was all this bus parking as it seems to have passed me by ? Lots of time wasting and feigning injuries at ER this season but not sure I've seen anyone with 10 behind the ball whilst we dominate possession. Ok I missed the Everton game so maybe it happened then, but all the rest have just defended normally. Wolves gave as good as they got but lacked a striker, Fulham deservedly won and went toe-to-toe, Villa were playing against 10 men all the second half and battered us but we held out. Chelsea end to end and the only other one is Arsenal who were the better team 1st half whilst we we pegged them back 2nd half, but they hardly parked the bus just defended their lead. Not sure away from home has been any different either although did miss the Brentford game, but as we got stuffed it's difficult to believe it happened there. Southampton a game of two halves, Palace,no as they were worthy winners after the first 20 mins, Leicester we were poor and offered little going forward, Liverpool definitely no bus parking from them. That just leaves Brighton and they dominated most of the game as well.
Interesting fact of Marsch football Leeds with 40% or less possession this season: 100% win rate Leeds with over 40% possession this season: 0% win rate In other words stop messing about with possession football at the back because we are not very good at it, boot the ball into their half, ensure you win the second ball & win more games.
We do **** about with the ball too much with this tippy tapping football in the middle trying to pass the ball to a team mate with three oppo players around him instead of the player on the wings in space, get the ****ing thing to players out wide, get it in the box, get into space and ****ing shoot instead of trying to beat the same player three times (Harrison) before doing so.
What I’ve noticed when watching the team press under Jesse compared to Bielsa…. Under Bielsa it looked on the eye to be a more gentle press, sometimes it was almost a gesture to without the conviction, suddenly it would be a genuine effort and we’d win the ball and there would always be a player available Under Jesse it’s more like a 100mph press all guns blazing, we seem to win the ball more but the players are too close and the simple pass isn’t on meaning we lose it back more. I’m not calling one better than the other, just how it looks when watching.
When I say gentler, I mean compared to Jesse. When the team press under Jesse it is gung-ho full steam ahead, it was much more controlled under Bielsa, that's how I saw it anyway, no issues if you see it different Several players never actually pressed under Bielsa, it was more a token gesture. I remember saying long ago that the opposition might as well ignore Costa as he was the master at doing a token press with no conviction
