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Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Deletion Requested1, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that anyone wants food banks, child poverty, or desperation. At least, not in modern Britain. Its a difficult one to solve which I think is why its not been. I do think we would have a better chance if the two sides of the argument (which I just see as different approaches to solving the same problem) could work together to find a solution, rather than just rubbishing what the other said.
     
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  2. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Well-Known Member

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    What's the other side of the argument on food banks? In the last 7 years, the number of food parcels given out by foodbanks in this country has more than doubled. I'm not suggesting that anyone actively wants foodbanks in a utopian world, but when it comes down to it, the government have decided that they'd rather spend their money on other people. There are businesses who are benefitting from the Corporation tax freeze and their CEO's benefitting from the abolition of the 45% tax band who have staff going to food banks because they're not paid enough.

    Whilst I agree that middle ground and compromise is needed in politics, I don't know what the argument is for this not to be a bigger priority. The government can only fix so much, but they've focused on the wrong people.
     
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  3. vic9

    vic9 Well-Known Member

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  4. vic9

    vic9 Well-Known Member

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    We are all naive marra, when it comes down to conscience and working class socialist beliefs.But what life has told me is you do best for your family and yourself first and never listen to any bullshit from ANY political party, otherwise you follow the self serving,arrogant,class driven,elitist Tories (Cameron,Tatcher,Rees-mogg,Johnson etc) or the fake socialist RICH party and so called famous socialist celebrities spouting their **** from their ivory towers (Starmer,Corbyn,Thornbury,Benn,Lilly Allen,Gary Neville,Blair etc)
    Fcuk the political system marra,there all about themselves, so do what’s best for your self,family and friends[/QUOTE]
     
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  5. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    Well, as we've seen, the government's side of the argument is that economic growth will solve the problem. This independent assessment of the 'mini budget' suggests that it will result in economic growth: https://www.niesr.ac.uk/publications/independent-assessment-mini-budget

    I'm not saying I think that's the right approach because it's not going to have an immediate impact. However, in purely theoretical terms, the idea of growth to solve the problems has its merits. In practice, its clearly not going to change anything quickly.
     
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  6. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    There is a chance it will promote growth, however it is only a very slim one, the odds are overwhelming that it have an adverse effect.

    Its like betting on one number to come up on a roulette wheel rather than red or black.
     
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  7. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    I think you're getting mixed up with Brexit mate .....
     
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  8. clockstander

    clockstander Well-Known Member

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    <laugh>
     
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  9. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    Have you looked at the link? The NIESR are forecasting that it will lead to growth and will shorten the recession. While I always question the affiliations of any source I read, the NIESR do appear to be pretty independent and they are quite damning of most of the other aspects of the budget. Which is why I'm inclined to believe them over what any Conservative or Labour spokesman or 'supporter' says about it. All of which takes us back to the original point that I was agreeing with and expanding on- if you only engage with sources of information that reflect your own biases back at you, you're never going to achieve a clear picture of any situation.
     
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  10. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    So why has she blocked the independent OBR from doing what they do?
     
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  11. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea, I'm not a Conservative minister. According to www.gov.uk more detailed costings and an assessment of the plan's impact on the economy will be included in the next OBR forecast.
     
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  12. clockstander

    clockstander Well-Known Member

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    Brexit is not done by a long chalk and is costing us dear, and so will this trickle down mantra, the future has to be PR and Green. It cannot be ignored even by the ivory tower clan.
     
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  13. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    Brexit certainly is costing us dear. That's one of the reasons the government are trying to stimulate the city (bankers bonuses etc) because some business has been lost elsewhere as a result of it. But they're never going to admit that Brexit was a mistake.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  14. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Thank you sweetheart <laugh>
     
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  15. clockstander

    clockstander Well-Known Member

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    That's why the need to go imo., or at least share power hence my support for PR, I know it is not perfect , but its a better option imo. than the present failed feudal system.
     
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  16. clockstander

    clockstander Well-Known Member

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    No problem :emoticon-0109-kiss:
     
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  17. Blond Bombshell

    Blond Bombshell Well-Known Member

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    I see a Far Right party led by a woman and links to Russia are about to get into power in Britain, I mean Italy...
     
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  18. Montysoptician

    Montysoptician Well-Known Member

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    They forecast a 2% rise in GDP growth which is 0.5% below the governments own target, they also express concerns that the "mini budget" will not address the existing regional disparities and give examples of the difference in growth between London and the South East and the rest of the country.

    To balance the NIESR seemingly positive assessment you should also consider the Institute of Fiscal Studies not so positive assessment.
    https://ifs.org.uk/articles/mini-budget-response
     
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  19. Montysoptician

    Montysoptician Well-Known Member

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    You are right it is a gamble that it will produce growth and even if it does produce growth it doesn’t follow that the benefit of that growth will trickle down.

    Two measures of GDP growth are the total income of everyone in the economy and the total expenditure on the economy's output of final goods and services. Both of these things can be measured at once because all expenditure in the economy ends up as someone's income.

    That doesn’t mean it necessarily ends up as an increase in everyone’s income though. A simple example would be if business owners fail to reinvest the tax cuts and take the profits without increasing workers wages in real terms (above inflation) or employ more people. The economy may well have grown but the income and benefit to most people has fallen.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
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  20. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I noted all of their criticisms of it. The only reason I posted it initially really was to illustrate that there are alternative views of it. Thanks for the IFS link, it's interesting to read <ok>
     
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