Yeah, it's just "a quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing." We know what's best for them.
Putin is like the playground bully. Do you stand up to him or do you just let him beat you up and take your phone and pocket money?
Sorry, who are these imaginary invaders of the Home Counties? I’m afraid that analogy fails on every level bar the purely emotive. There is a civil war taking place in the Donbas; if you want an analogy closer to home, try Northern Ireland. A 30 year civil conflict sustained in part by the support of idealistic Americans with no understanding of the issues bar a sentimental view of the ‘old country’ - which few had ever visited.
Again back to the original point though - I don’t think it’s in our interest to get more and more involved in this. Ultimately if energy prices continue as they are, Europe will be on the brink of societal collapse. I understand the emotional “let’s save Ukraine”.. and obviously I agree. But when your energy bills are £2k per month, will you still think it’s worth it? I don’t.
I'll look at it later we're at the Oude Sluys terrace having a beer. Mr Pie's industrial strength language would disturb the peace.
I notice no one has answered.. How high will energy prices have to go before you consider the sanctions a bad idea?
It was hardly an organic civil war. Here is Igor Girkin, the FSB colonel who staged it, explicitly stating that there was basically no support in Crimea for Russian control, and that they rounded up all of the deputies and forced them at gunpoint to support the 'self-defense forces': Also, "why should we care about Ukraine if it makes our heating costs rise?" is staggeringly cynical.
The difficulty is that it is both a serious problem for the West to stand up to Putin and to turn a blind eye. The anology with Northern Ireland was spot on. The situation in Ukraine is too complicated to make things this simplistic and it is worth while remembering that the mindsets of both countries are radically different from much of Western Europe. By aeming Ukraine, we could easily be creating a problem for later on whereas it is also fair enough to say that not interferring may be a good choice if the Russian people decide to do something themselves about Putin. People tend to forget that a little over 100 years ago little had effectively changed much for these peoples since the Middle Ages. Democracy as we would understand it is only a recent concept for many of these peoples. With Putin using fuel as a weapon, I think that this will ultimately have an adverse effect as it will wean people off fossil fuels far more effectively than Greta Thunburg. The West will innovate and I am sure this will only be an issue in the short term. The effect on Russia will be a disaster as it's industries effectviely produces nothing that the West want to buy. Our only interest is really with the amount of grain prodiced.
The armoured thrust by vast Russian forces towards Kiev with the stated aim of replacing the government of Ukraine equates to Northern Ireland? Laughable. I'm done. Vin
Gosh, I have a life off the forum and didn't respond instantly... Where's your answer to the "giving up the Home Counties" question?
Our energy bills are nothing to do with the war in Ukraine! We get 4% of our gas from Russia! The prices are all about the companies realising that Europe needs the gas, so they’re floggingbit back to them at high prices and making obscene profits. At the same time, as we have no storage any longer (shut down by the Tories) we’ll be buying it back at inflated prices in the winter, so they’re just buttering us up and preparing us. Now, Mistrust is going to “find” £100 billion or thereabouts to “lend” us to help the energy bills in the short term. This money will have to be paid back, but, no doubt, it will be championed by the right wing media as a superb help …. Then a quick election so the sheep voters will return them to power ….. if they get in again, I will move abroad - I couldn’t stand to see another term of these lying, cheating crooks …..
I disagree with this. It will not be a positive. We can’t just miraculously switch to green energy. That isn’t how innovation & technology works. Putin using fuel as a weapon is catastrophic for Europe. l am truly baffled that someone above said the war in Ukraine has nothing to do with energy prices. What planet are you on?? It plays a massive and fundamental part. The supply has been decimated meaning demand and price skyrockets I think many people are underestimating what this all means. There will come a point (soon) where industry has to shut down. Where there will be blackouts. Maybe I’m too worried. I hope so. But I don’t think many people will care about Ukraine when they can’t get food for their family.
In answer to your question; if someone rolled into England I would be the first to go and fight them off. But we are not in Ukraine. It’s comparing apples to oranges. Now answer my question; how much are you willing to give up from your own life to defend Ukraine? £1k a month? £2k a month? because this is the very real choice facing us
