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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. davecg69

    davecg69 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, by doing that and, effectively, removing yourself from the democratic process, you now have no say in anything to do with governing the country.
    I remember, when I first started working, I was taken along to a union meeting by my boss, who, very much like my dad was a firm believer in workers rights. Out of around 400+ members, there were probably 50 people there (a good turnout I was told) but the items out forward were (even to my 19 year old slightly left of centre self) ridiculously left wing - management were described as “scum” (I was one of them as was my boss, who spoke eloquently about the fact that most management DO care, but was shouted down)
    The motion to ballot for industrial action was passed easily and my boss and I were verbally abused - even though we were members of the same union.
    Afterwards I spoke to him while we were having a drink and expressed my surprise at how radical the union seemed. His answer? When the vast majority of the members cannot be bothered to turn up or stand for election, you let the radicals in as they WILL take the time to attend and vote. By being apathetic you let the extremists make the decisions. That has stuck with me and I will
    NOT be led by the right (or left) wing media telling me the things they want me to know - if the vast majority of voters had actually bothered to read widely and listen to more views instead of those pushed by the billionaire media owners, this country wouldn’t be in the mess it it.
    Until we get rid of the FPTP political system, we won’t get a true democratic system.
    As for voting - I’ll vote for whichever party is likely to oust my local conservative MP as it is hugely important that the voters of this country show them that their policies and actions have been deplorable. As Vin says, don’t fall into the trap of believing all the “woke” **** about different parties. It’s purely to smear anyone who isn’t rightwing and will let these bastards run rings around us for years.
     
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  2. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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  3. davecg69

    davecg69 Well-Known Member

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    #35063
  4. It'sOnlyAGame

    It'sOnlyAGame Well-Known Member

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    I'll answer the second part first. Calling it a fiction of the press and the lunatic fringe is untrue and also an example of what I have written above in trying to discredit arguments by demeaning the source. In this case without knowing what the source is.

    Here are some Labour MP's responses to being asked "is it transphobic to say only women have a cervix?"

    https://waronwomen.substack.com/p/womens-rights-do-come-up-on-the-doorstep

    Emily Thornberry....https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58708728

    https://thecritic.co.uk/i-spoilt-my-ballot-because-women-dont-have-penises/

    Comparing the trans situation with "gaybashing" is not only a facile argument but overly dramatic. They are simply two different issues. There was no excusable reason for gay people to be attacked for wanting equal rights. Men claiming to be woman on the other hand want to take away women's and girl's rights to single sex spaces. There should be a push back against this movement from everyone.

    As to your first question I would say that not only does it have an affect on my life but also anyone who is or has, a wife, daughter, sister, mother. So, just about everyone, and they should be "bothered" about a party that promotes this thinking. If the Labour Party cannot define what a woman is, then how can they create policies around for example, violence against women, discrimination and equality. You cannot make policies for what you can't define.

    Labour have said they will change the Gender Recognition Act. The effect of this will make it easier for any man to gain access to what were previously single sex spaces. If people are happy to have a situation where a fully intact male can swan into changing rooms where their wives or daughters may be, then great go ahead, vote Labour.
     
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  5. It'sOnlyAGame

    It'sOnlyAGame Well-Known Member

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    You still here? I thought you had left the board in a hissy fit.

    Hissy Fit Meaning

    Definition: An outburst of anger, often in a childlike manner.
     
    #35065
  6. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    "The last bullshit moral panic that the right used to distract from salient issues was always bullshit. However, this new bullshit moral panic is totally meaningful!"

    And it will be until it loses salience and everyone forgets that they cared so very deeply about it, and we all move on to the next bullshit moral panic.
     
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  7. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

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    Whether you think it is bullshit or not may be irrelevant. It comes down to if a meaningful number of voters do. And to those voters just saying “the argument is bullshit so I won’t even address it and you should ignore it” is not good enough

    I point to Virginia and CRT as a case study. It seems like the counter there was “this isn’t actually being taught”. Which missed the point. Because in responding that way and also defending the position of “and even if it was it would be within the school’s rights and decision making parameters” was basically arrogantly dismissing the concerns

    Sure you can say “who cares about dismissing the concerns of bigots”. But in some cases that doesn’t really work out too well. You start getting into momentum territory where ideological purity trumps actually winning and governing. But the insistence on ideological purity has harmed left leaning causes for a long time. And this is unlikely to change any time soon
     
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  8. berlinersaint

    berlinersaint Active Member

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    Love this thread :emoticon-0137-clapp
     
    #35068
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  9. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that it's bullshit because gender identity has been an enumerated right in Canada since 2017 (it even passed with a majority of Conservative votes), and the net result is...nothing happened. It was totally fine. None of the doomsaying came to pass, life continued exactly as normal, except that an often-persecuted minority became a bit less persecuted. This "what is a woman?" thing is nothing but a cynical means of avoiding having to run on the last several years of Tory governance.

    It's really hard to engage with people who are in a frothing panic about things that literally do not exist, like the teaching of CRT in schools, without pointing out that the thing literally does not exist. It's hard to engage in good faith with those who are explicitly acting in bad faith; the people pushing the CRT nonsense knew that it wasn't a thing. Some of them even said it out loud!
     
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  10. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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  11. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

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    On the 'responding to irrational panics as if they're real' front: 2020's big panic was that roving gangs of Antifa were marauding through the suburbs, causing property damage to random Trump supporters. Without fail, they have turned out to be people committing insurance fraud. Another one (who got quite a bit of press coverage at the time, and raised a substantial sum on GoFundMe as a result) was arrested today for faking such an attack:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/denis-molla-brooklyn-center-arson-charges/
     
    #35071
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  12. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    "People who are in a frothing panic" excellent description of those on the righteous right.
     
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  13. Onionman

    Onionman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the honesty and the explanation.

    The only comment I have is that every single word in it relates to trans women. Which, possibly not coincidentally, is a singular obsession in the sources you deny being the cause of the panic. They, like you, never ever mention people transitioning the other way.

    Given that, it might be worth just considering whether it's possible that you've been more affected by those sources than you think you have.

    I can tell you're emotional on the subject and I promise it's not my intention to wind you up. I'm genuinely thankful for the honesty and for sharing your viewpoint.

    Vin
     
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  14. Onionman

    Onionman Well-Known Member

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    Factually, CRT is not being taught anywhere but in law schools in the USA. It's a subset of law studies.

    What's being labelled 'CRT' in schools is different and is actually lessons in which subjects like slavery in the US along with its impacts and the true cause of the American civil war are taught. It might be better labelled as 'US history'.

    Vin
     
    #35074
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  15. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    I found this interesting Forbes article whilst looking understand more about CRT. I'll read it again and follow some of the links later
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterg...ce-theory-in-schools-is-over/?sh=59de74e26f04
     
    #35075
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  16. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    Sir Edwin Beaufort, MP for Lower Bishop’s Twuntford, is making a late bid to become PM.

     
    #35076
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  17. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I have been unable to find a brief video of Dominic Raab practically cacking himself as he spoke about the dangers of Labour and the Lib Dems forming a “socialist alliance” to get the Tories out, and that they might bring in Proportional Representation.
    It was a joy to behold to see him recognise that the years of Tory, right of centre domination could be coming to an end.
    It’s worth remembering that in pretty much every general election, more than 50% of the electorate vote for left of centre parties, yet FPTP keeps on giving us a government to the right.
     
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  18. Saints_Alive

    Saints_Alive Well-Known Member

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    #35078
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  19. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    #35079
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  20. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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    A fascinating thread reader about some strange financial shenanigans involving the setting up of YouGov in 2000, with our current Chancellor of the Exchequer and possible future PM involved in a way which seems to imply tax-avoidance.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1547167726963236864.html
     
    #35080
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