I’ve been following with interest the effects of Aussie Rules’ new ‘dissent rule’ - which cracks down hard on players disagreeing with an umpire’s decision (umpire = referee for the uninitiated) - or even ‘visibly expressing frustration’ over a decision. The rationale for introducing the rule was to counter the increasing number of umpires leaving the sport at youth & grassroots levels due to the abuse they were receiving from players - and that its introduction at the top level would mean that top players would act as positive role models for those in the lower reaches of the sport. When reading this particular article, I was actually surprised to learn that a similar rule had been introduced in football here this season - with the main difference being that it was introduced at the grassroots level rather than at the top. I know similar rules have been introduced/trialled here in the professional in the past, but they always seemed to be short-lived, ignored and then disappear without comment. I don’t know what others think, but I’m slightly puzzled - does good/bad behaviour towards referees trickle down from the top, or does it flow up from the bottom? I’ve always personally been of the opinion that those at the bottom emulate the behaviours of those at the top, especially in the youth ranks. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-19/afl-dissent-rules-causing-issues/100998346
In my experience folks act on what they see the big boys do. Best way to deal with it from the current starting point is at grass roots and especially in elite youth football. The laws are a mess thanks to the people running the game not having kicked a competetive football in their lives. It shows.
Dissent should just be a yellow or red card but there seems to be a reluctance to follow that law so people think it's ok and get away with it.
I hate being one of those guys who talks up the behaviour of rugby players, but I think seeing them generally give respect to referees and listen politely to them explaining their decisions made me behave differently toward them when I used to play rugby. Having the referee mounted cameras make the point even more forcefully. I play field hockey, and even at our low level the umpires are quite hot on carding people for disagreeing with any vehemence. They are helped by having the option of using green cards as less harsh penalties though. While club level hockey players I see sometimes emulate footballers a bit, they soon get into trouble if they loudly disagree.
Part of the game these days is trying to fool the ref, and when it doesn't work the player involved will appear affronted. Mouthing off, waving arms about follow, so the ref ignores it and the game continues. I suspect that this behaviour transmits itself into other places. Just watch PMQs for an example as the PM attempts to fool the MPs and when he is caught out waves his arms around and attempts to say that he is right, while everyone knows it is a try on. The village primary school where I lived would have a few parents turn up when the football team played another school. The poor ref who was generally a games teacher, not a professional ref. would get all sorts of stick from mainly dads. Some of the little dears had seen too much football on TV and perfected the death roll before getting up when there was no foul given. I would change things, so simulation anywhere on the pitch was worth a yellow card.
I'm not sure I agree - to me, yellow cards simply delay 'justice' against players who cheat. I'd rather see ten minutes in the sin bin for them - or, as previously tried (but never used?), a free kick marched 10 or 20 metres towards their own goal.
Yeah, I would like to see a sin bin in operation, I think I like the idea, but would need to see it. The moving of free-kicks 10yds forwards only has relevance for me if a free-kick might then become a penalty. Dissent does kill the game, but poor referees can too. I coach in Hertfordshire and there is one referee who is utterly clueless, but bloody pompous, which makes him more ridiculous. I may have said it before, but my biggest regret coaching-wise was not removing my team from the field of play in the FA Peoples Cup. We were through to the semi-finals section, which was held in Bedfordshire, and the team that went on to win were thugs (managed by a thug) and allowed by the referees to get away with extremely reckless ‘challenges’. It amazes me on reflection there were no bones broken. We’d had it drilled into us “respect for the referee” which I hold to, but I regret I didn’t let my duty of care override that. It was so dangerous.
One of my first bookings when I started out: I was telling a player why I was warning him about a challenge and he interrupted. I told him it's not a debating society and he interjected again. I then told him if he interrupted me again I would caution him for dissent. He duly did so... one YC. Because of what he actually said County made it up to a sending off for foul and abusive language. I appeared at his appeal arguing that though I had written what he said verbatim on my report I did not consider what he said as FAL and the context only merited a YC (it was that he had said anything, not his choice of words) and there would have been no hesitation on my part to issue a Red had I thought it was merited, pointing out that I had sent another player off for FAL in the same game. I was not popular with the blazers after that. But this is the sort of thing that they don't get about refereeing for the players. We all have our own tolerance levels and they ought to be respected. I didn't make the "mistake" of putting in a cuss word unless it was for a Red ever again! Dissent was rarely a problem for me. The players knew where they stood. Violent Conduct and Serious Foul Play always got a Red from me. As did "simulation" which I punished with a YC long, long, before it became a thing: the "catch-all" of 'shows a lack of respect for the game' - commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player, restart with an indirect free kick. Simples. Correctly applied, the laws 15 years ago and longer were perfectly adequate. Don't get me started on offside or handball, I'm just glad to be out of it! Clueless, those in charge, utterly clueless.
Thx - I enjoyed reading that. What do you think SHOULD have happened when Arteta ran out of his 'technical area' to give the ball to his player, quick throw-in and a few seconds later 2-1 to ArsenaL became 3-1 ?
My observation from the matchday thread. For context the 4th Official apparently said to Arteta: "you shouldn't be allowed to do that!" - when, quite clearly, he bloody well wasn't!! [Spurs got a goal against us in not dissimilar circumstances, plus the match ball, we were not playing multi-ball, was still on the pitch when the throw in was taken that lead to the free-kick] The fourth official is an arse. must remain within its confines except in special circumstances, e.g. a physiotherapist/doctor entering the field of play, with the referee’s permission, to assess an injured player Ergo the goal should have been disallowed and the correct sanction would be a yellow card showing a lack of respect for the game Absolutely inexcusable. Had the referee done his job properly then the throw in would be retaken. Had the referee realised his mistake, and it is a gross error in my view, after the ball was in the goal then he should have restarted with a goal kick.
Not according to the two faced hypocrites who present MOTD, according to them he should be praised for showing initiative I think we all know what their reaction would have been the other way round The only reason I would love us to turn over Man City is to shut them up and make them eat s**t live on tv, most of all the jug eared baboon who is paid an offensive amount to pretend he knows anything about real football
My uncle was a referee, I think to 5th/6th tier, around fifty years ago. He was a stickler for clean language, and apparently went into each dressing room to warn the players before the game. His belief was that once duly warned, they couldn’t complain if he seemed to have lower threshold than others for booking for that.
I never got that high up. I ran the line at the old 8th tier (one below Ryman Premier Division) and on the WPL. Middled two Intermediate County Cup S-F's and several local league finals. I refereed at a higher level than I played for sure, I did play at County standard (Tier 11) and two matches at T9 helping an injury crisis. When middling I always addressed the players in the dressing room. "Good afternoon gentlemen: jewellery off; gum out; no sillies in the tackles- we've all got work on Monday; the only F word I want to hear is football; offside - the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking team, club linesman is on my side not yours and I will not tolerate dissent on offside decisions. Last and by no means least, have a great game." At the toss: "Captains, if you get to your players before I do, so much the better. The less I need to blow my whistle the more puff I'll have to run around helping you have a good game!" It helped me enormously on the pitch; sort of reffing "The Blazers" can't stand. I only ever "lost" one game, entirely my fault and the last half hour was purgatory. My first County Cup match (morning after England drew in Italy to qualify for the 98 World Cup) I sent off one from each team for "handbags" (can I still say that?) within two minutes of the start. Proper punches thrown, no choice despite the protestations. "You spoilt the game ref!" "No, they spoilt it." No problems after that.
The height of my playing career was in Queensland, representing Rockhampton in an inter-city match against Gladstone. Literally 15 minutes of fame - the goalkeeper chosen for the match had car problems on the way, so I filled in. He arrived 15 minutes after kick-off and I was subbed off. I was a bit miffed as I thought I'd been playing quite well - we were only losing 0-1. The final score cheered me up no end though - we lost 0-8.
Oddly I was in goal too for my two matches for Amersham Town: away at Dunstable Town and the home match I can't remember against whom. Lost both games and I also played quite well, especially at Dunstable. I had several months at Wealdstone as a teenager but hated the experience so much (way above my technical and physical abilities, no idea how I was there for so long) that I didn't kick a ball again for nearly 8 years.
I’m sure you are correct, but how ‘the Blazers’ would be troubled by common sense is beyond m… I’ve answered my own question, haven’t I?
