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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 11th April)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Apr 11, 2022.

  1. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Good Morning. It's Monday 11th April, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road


    Survival in sight after comfortable win

    Leeds all but guaranteed their top flight status after thumping Watford 3-0 at Vicarage Road on Saturday. Although the game was anything but a classic, Leeds at least showed class and composure in front of goal, whilst the hosts' wasted opportunities have all but condemned them to life in the Championship next season.

    Heavy touches and misplaced passes were plentiful throughout the game from both teams, but when you're at the wrong end of the table, during the business end of the season, all that matters is points!

    After some nervy moments, Raphinha opened the scoring, midway through the first half, with an edge-of-the-box strike that crashed in off the post. Ismaïla Sarr had several guilt edged opportunities to level for the hosts, but fluffed his lines in front of goal.

    Leeds established their dominance over the Hornets after bringing on Kalvin Phillips, with thirty minutes left. The England midfielder steadied the Leeds ship as the Whites slowly began to click into gear. Rodrigo doubled the scoreline on 73 minutes after a defensive blender. A through ball from Greenwood should have been comfortably dealt with by Kamara, but the Ivory Coast International gifted the ball to the Leeds forward, who duly rounded Ben Foster in goal, and slotted the ball home into an empty net.

    Harrison added a spectacular third, five minutes from time, after a through ball from Greenwood. The 25yo has now scored in all of his previous three matches, but his strike on Saturday was something special.

    Leeds are now nine points clear of Burnley in 18th place. They have six games left to add to their 33 point tally; surely another two points should do it!

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    How would Bielsa have done


    After losing his first two games in charge, Jesse Marsch's influence has started to make a difference with the Leeds squad. The Whites have picked up ten points from their last four games, and are eighth in the form guide with three wins, a draw and two losses from their last six games.

    It's true that when Bielsa was sacked, Leeds had just played many of the better teams, and his job was not made any easier with so many players out injured at the time. After conceding 24 goals from our opening eight games of 2022, (and losing against both Newcastle and Everton), the Leeds board felt they had to make a change, and Jesse Marsch was appointed.

    In hindsight, was Radrizzani right to get rid of Bielsa when he did? How do you think Leeds would have done up until this point, had the Argentine still been in charge?

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    A culture war is brewing at Elland Road

    Leeds Utd journalist believes that Leeds will not thrive without more quality in the squad, but for the time being are content just to avoid the drop zone. He also spoke of Jesse Marsch less relentless approach to coaching, especially when match days are approaching. The 48-year-old celebrated his third win in four games after a comfortable victory over the Hornets at Vicarage Road at the weekend, but according to Hay, a culture war is bewing at Elland Road!

    "The clean sheet was Leeds’ first for 18 matches, an indicator about which of these teams might be staying up and which is going down. Stress has been on Marsch’s mind since he replaced Marcelo Bielsa at the end of February, specifically the job of easing it and quelling it. He has taken to making Thursdays, or match day minus-two as football likes to call it, a gentler day and trying to avoid over-stating the importance of individual games, even if the table speaks for itself".

    "Last week was managed in that way and Leeds’ board are getting from him what they wanted when they sacked Bielsa: results, plain and simple, which keep the club away from the rocks. There is a culture war brewing in the longer term, the battle to entertain a public who want to be entertained, but for the past month, Leeds have been better than anyone else in the bottom five at digging out points. Hodgson sounded like a coach who no longer expects to find a spade".

    "Priorities, in other words, and survival is the biggest of them. Longer term, Leeds will not thrive without more quality. Longer term, pressure will come for an identity that pleases the eye. But in stepping out of a car crash, the last thing anyone thinks about is the fate of the car".

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    #1
  2. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo is Shit

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    That was a huge weekend for the future of our football club.

    There's no guarantees just yet but it's looking extremely likely we will be in this league next season.

    (Appreciate the daily threads @ellandback <applause><applause>)
     
    #2
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  3. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    If we can get something from the palace game then we can maybe relax a bit against the big boys and give them a game.<ok>
     
    #3
  4. hemase

    hemase Well-Known Member

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    Morning all,

    Nice to see some of the slash your wrist fans are calming down.

    Far from our best performance but how much of it was Watford dragging us down to their level?
     
    #4
  5. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    We need a change of formation and tactics against these top sides. Bielsa would have not done this and taken us down. Four at the back and put forshaw /phillips/Dallas as a three man midfield. Drop james till later and put rodrigo /raph /harrison up top.
    Need to keep things tight and avoid another thrashing.
     
    #5
  6. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    Morning all

    None of us know how we would have faired under Bielsa for those games. The turning point was the red card against Wolves, without that we were going to be on the end of a hiding.

    The Norwich game, 4 minutes of injury time, Gelhardt came on and got the winner, again very fortunate but hard to say if under Bielsa we'd have had the game won by then or if he'd have risked Bamford and the substitutions forced on Marsch subsequently

    Marsch certainly has had the easier fixtures, it's a question none of us could possibly answer. Assuming we are safe now you have to look at it as the right decision, not because Bielsa would have failed but because he was going in the summer, the way it has worked out the players have had a chance to get to know Marsch and maybe decide on their contracts whilst playing under him rather than closed season

    Marsch has had a head start for next season, working with the players and installing his way of playing into them, he will be making decisions on who he takes forward and who needs replacing.

    We needed to win a few games and we have so you can't knock Marsch for that but anyone who thinks our problems are solved is mistaken. We beat the two worst teams in the division, Norwich and Watford. Southampton was a must win and we failed, Marsch needs the preseason, he needs an active transfer window and new players need bringing in at the start of it not the end.

    I'm satisfied with how things have gone so far, I'm on the fence about Marsch I liked him to start with, it dipped, I'm warming to him again now. It's very hard to judge him good or bad with an inherited team and a select group of players who worshipped Bielsa and need Marsch to prove himself before they give that same devotion.

    One thing is for sure, without some new signings it wouldn't matter if it was Marsch or Bielsa in charge next season, we'd still be fighting the wrong end of the table.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  7. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand the culture war thing.Theres nothing I enjoy more than a Leeds win, whether its flowing football and conceding three in the process or digging in like Saturday. I don't see anything positive in six or seven nil thrashings and hope we can put those behind us. The summer ahead will be interesting to see if we emerge with a stronger squad from all this or more of the same maybe even without our two gems. Without Raphas quality Saturday yet again we might not have won that game
     
    #7
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  8. leeds60

    leeds60 Well-Known Member

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    Good
     
    #8
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  9. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    In a way I think Bielsa overthought and tried to implement ideas which were asking too much of the Leeds players, especially when they were playing out of position (apart from Dallas who could play anywhere). You have to know your limitations, and work to your strengths, and that's what Marsch has done. Man to man marking was fine against some teams, but there are others when you'll be playing right into their hands.

    The fitness regime under Bielsa was gruelling, and the players did amazingly well to keep it going for as long as they did. I note that Marsch has shortened training sessions on Thursdays and Fridays to allow the squad to recover in time for the match. Marsch has also asked the players to slow things down occasionally. Instead of charging around at 100mph, use their footballing brain to pick out a pass!!!
     
    #9
  10. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    During one of Bielsa's post match interviews, he made it clear that he wasn't going to change a thing. I believe it was then that Radrizzani asked Orta to bring Marsch forward three months. When something obviously isn't working, its madness to continue doing exactly the same.
     
    #10

  11. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Morning all.

    Now after feeling great following Burnley's defeat yesterday a little realism has come to mind today and the fact there's still work to be done. Doesn't matter how many fans say we're safe as those are just words and not points.

    Part of what's nagging away at me is that both Everton & Burnley don't play their 37th game until 3 days before the end of the season. That means after we've played Brighton (our last home game) we'll need to be 7 points clear of one of them to be able to celebrate our PL survival and not have to worry about a final day decider.

    That's assuming Norwich & Watford are gone of course.
     
    #11
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  12. southernwhite

    southernwhite Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, that was the moment i to, had a sharp intake of breath and resigned to myself that, we were going to go down.
    Another thing i am pleased to see is that Jesse has lightened up the gruelling training schedule, as i swear this contributed in some way to our injury problems, now that we have players coming back we might just be able to keep them fit for the run in, although i am pretty sure we will be ok.
    I for one am extremely pleased with marsche's tenure so far, as he has done very well with what has been put before him, couldn't ask for any more really.
    As i have said before, i don't expect any points from Liverpool/City but one thing is for sure i will not be cowering behind the sofa like a couple of months ago, and will look forward to the team, letting them both know that they have been in a game. Two 2-1 defeats i am afraid, but could/would have been so much worse until recently.
     
    #12
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  13. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    But the players are not playing any better under Marsch than they did under Bielsa last season. They’re all still looking worse this year.

    The first half against West Ham it was awful, against Villa it was equally as bad and against Watford the scoreline flattered us, we didn’t look that good.

    I’m not knocking the changes Marsch is implementing but I think our problems are far deeper than blaming it on training, the training routine that saw us as the best team in the Championship for consecutive seasons.

    For three seasons Bielsa got those players exceeding expectation, I don’t feel Marsch will have the same effect, we’ll need a different type of player and if the funds are in short supply it will be difficult.

    If the Norwich game had three not four minutes of injury time and if the referee had not given a second yellow against the Wolves player or if he’d been half a second quicker we’d be 4 points worse off, it’s all very fine margins.

    I just don’t feel it’s time to be celebrating Marsch as the saviour and Bielsa as the villain.

    I also guarantee that at some stage next season there will be complaints that our players don’t look as fit as they should be and fans will question if Marsch isn’t pushing them enough
     
    #13
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  14. Old Git

    Old Git Well-Known Member

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    "I just don’t feel it’s time to be celebrating Marsch as the saviour and Bielsa as the villain".

    Don't think anybody is.
     
    #14
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  15. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    There is a bit of it going on mate, it depends where you look, the main Facebook supporters group has a lot Marsch vs Bielsa.

    Elland asked “In hindsight, was Radrizzani right to get rid of Bielsa when he did? How do you think Leeds would have done up until this point, had the Argentine still been in charge?”

    A great question for drumming up replies, activity and discussion but it also brings out a lot of black and white answers.
     
    #15
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  16. southernwhite

    southernwhite Well-Known Member

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    No possibly not, although they are now playing a new system which appears to be working for them, in other words their adapting, it might not be as pretty as the Bielsa way but it’s starting to show signs of paying off results wise.
    This change is exactly what was needed, getting the best out of faltering players which were now struggling under Bielsa’s system, unfortunately Bielsa could I am sure, see this, but refused to adapt/change to the situation we found ourselves in. His way was the only way no matter what poor performances/results it would bring.
    Mehh bet I have upset a few die hard Bielsa supporters on here.:)
    Top priority this season safety, & let's see what Jesse and the board will do for next season and then judge them.
     
    #16
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  17. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo is Shit

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    No doubt we have had a good amount of luck in the last 4 games. Happy to agree there.

    You've got to remember some of the atrocious luck we have had all season prior to that though. We were due a bit of good fortune and it's come at the right time.
     
    #17
  18. southernwhite

    southernwhite Well-Known Member

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    I want to make it clear that i will fully support any coach in charge of Leeds, even if we wen't down or stayed up i would have been fully behind Bielsa, just like i am Marsch now.
     
    #18
  19. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    We might have beat Norwich 3-0 Southampton 3-1 and Watford 2-0 under Bielsa, or we might have lost them all, it’s really impossible to judge.

    Injured players returning, playing Watford and Norwich rather than Liverpool and Manchester, it’s impossible to say. I created the post Bielsa sacked a day before he was as I felt that strongly, then I felt awful and thought maybe we should have given him the chance.

    I 100% agree and I’ve said it many times before, stubbornness and loyalty cost Bielsa results. During our first season back in the PL I said we’d never challenge for top 6 with Bielsa in charge, he doesn’t handle the modern non humble football player or anyone who questions him
     
    #19
  20. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    I agree mate but that just plays more towards those who miss Bielsa as you could say Bielsa had no luck, Jesse has been lucky

    I’m okay with Jesse in charge, I’m just a bit reserved. Bielsa had to go, it was sad but he was his own worse enemy in the end
     
    #20

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